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Old 11-24-2009, 09:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

From a modern perspective, isn't this sort of like the A-10? Rugged more so then well armored? Like HANS says, a high HT to roll against seems to make the most sense.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
In 4e this has to be weight (in tons)^1/3 x 50, otherwise it will do all manner of wonky things with collisions and so on. Assuming we can trust HANS's loaded weight (and if not, why are you trusting his P-51 stats then? ), I also get 88.
88 it is then. Didn't found the formula before.

My reasoning was based in the 3e stats, to get eWeight I had to use the formula Lwt - Payload, according to the Lwt and Payload definitions on WWII p.100:

P-51 is 4t - 0.7t = 3.3t (WWII p.110)

P-47 is 6.9t - 1.6t = 5.3t (Dogfaces p.83)

So a increase of 60% in mass should mean a similar increase in Hit points. But it seems I missed something, or the 3e stats where wrong.
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Last edited by hackbarth; 11-25-2009 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Misread the formula sir pudding wrote.
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:28 AM   #13
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

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88 it is then. Didn't found the formula before.
Basic page 558.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:29 AM   #14
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

But now I got that the P-51 should have 74 hit points! All my searchs point that the empty weight of the mustang is around 3.3 tons. 3e stats agree with that.

High tech assigns 84 hit points, in the errata for the book this isn't changed. This was a typo, the hit points derive from something beyond empty weight, or the empty weight of the plane is for some reason different of what WWII and the sites I consulted say it was?
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

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But now I got that the P-51 should have 74 hit points! All my searchs point that the empty weight of the mustang is around 3.3 tons. 3e stats agree with that.

High tech assigns 84 hit points, in the errata for the book this isn't changed. This was a typo, the hit points derive from something beyond empty weight, or the empty weight of the plane is for some reason different of what WWII and the sites I consulted say it was?
If the empty weight of a P-51D was 7,635 lbs then I get a ST/HP of 79 . This may be errata for High-Tech. HANS?
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
If the empty weight of a P-51D was 7,635 lbs then I get a ST/HP of 79 . This may be errata for High-Tech. HANS?
I have two print sources showing 7,125 lbs unloaded.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

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So a increase of 60% in mass should mean a similar increase in Hit points. But it seems I missed something, or the 3e stats where wrong.
Since HP are based on the cube root of mass, 1.6x mass should have 1.6^(1/3)x HP. That's only about a 17% increase.

Ignore everything after this. It's been pointed out that I was going by incorrect memory of the rules.

Also, 4e vehicle HP are based on normal loaded weight, not empty weight (I guess it's assumed that the frame is designed to handle the weight of normal stores without a problem)*. 84 HP is in line with weight of about 4.5 tons, which isn't out of line with numbers I've seen for the P-51.

* For realism, you might want to base HP on a lower weight for vehicles that are "overloaded" (edit: and possibly lower HT). The Panzer I mounting a sIG 33 comes to mind.
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Last edited by RyanW; 11-25-2009 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

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Originally Posted by copeab View Post
I have two print sources showing 7,125 lbs unloaded.
How's that help? That gives a lower value (77). BTW which sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Also, 4e vehicle HP are based on normal loaded weight, not empty weight.
What's your source?

EDIT: Basic 558 uses empty weight.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 11-25-2009 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:53 AM   #19
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

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Since HP are based on the cube root of mass, 1.6x mass should have 1.6^(1/3)x HP. That's only about a 17% increase.

Also, 4e vehicle HP are based on normal loaded weight, not empty weight (I guess it's assumed that the frame is designed to handle the weight of normal stores without a problem). 84 HP is in line with weight of about 4.5 tons, which isn't out of line with numbers I've seen for the P-51.
I was simply explaining how I got my previous, uninformed, figures. Didn't arrived at the cuberoot formula until Sir pudding pointed it to me...

If this is the case, the P-47 should have 107 hit points, figured from the 9.7 tons figure from loaded weight. And the P-51 should have 91 hit points from his loaded weight of 6t from High Tech. The numbers don't match again. I'll wait for clarification on this.
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Last edited by hackbarth; 11-25-2009 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: [WWII] P-47D Thunderbolt

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If this is the case, the P-47 should have 107 hit points, figured from the 9.7 tons figure from loaded weight. And the P-51 should have 91 hit points from his loaded weight of 6t from High Tech. The numbers don't match again.
Basic 558 says "4x(cube root of empty weight in lbs) for Unliving objects" (emphasis mine). I'm not sure where Ryan's getting the idea that it should be loaded weight from. Either this is errata or HANS used a source that gives an empty weight of 9,261 lbs for the P-51D.
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