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Old 02-07-2008, 06:45 PM   #41
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Comment on Ranged 2:

You might want to consider changing this from a head-shot insta-kill to a chest shot.

Give him a bolt-action .338 a choice of ammo, and make him either a worse shot or farther away.

First shot to Vitals with AP ammo, done as he gets from front door to his car. 9d+1(2) will do 31 pts of damage to effective DR18. That's 13 penetrating, either x3 for vitals or x1/2 for pi- (from the AP). The x3 is probably a killing shot; the x1/2 is 6pts of damage, enough for a major wound.

alternately, you can make the first shot regular, hit the armor, and be stopped. The DR23 trauma plates are penetrated, but the DR12 vest is not. If the roll was kinda-good (say, 34pts instead of an average 31), one could rule that since 10pts of damage was stopped by the flexible tactical vest, one point of blunt trauma damage was suffered. (p. B379)

Then the guy has to reload, and he selects an AP bullet, and whammies the guy to the torso through a car window or something.
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Old 02-07-2008, 07:07 PM   #42
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

If such an example were to be created, it should be separate from the existing one. I like it as is, because it is short and to the point, that point being that rifle combat in GURPS can kill you very quickly.
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Old 02-07-2008, 07:14 PM   #43
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
"(B400) You never have to target a hit location - you can always just strike at 'whatever target presents itself'....
Emphasis by me
Because i recently discussed this part, i think the rule is meant to give the combatant the consciuos option to strike a random location, not to replace the torso default. B398 under torso says that "If you dont specify a hitlocation, you are attacking the torso", B400 says nothing about that part getting overruled, just that "random" is also a valid hitlocation. I just would not allow aimed attack at random locations at all, but that isnt supported by the RAW.

EDIT: added the not in the last sentence i forgot while typing the post.

Last edited by Woodman; 02-08-2008 at 04:37 AM.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:50 PM   #44
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Default Re; Examples of 4e Combat

This may seem like a nit since it doesn't affect the flow of combat at all. Still....
In Close Cbt #2, the introductory sentence says that the higher DX goes first since they have the same Basic Speed. Except that in this example they don't. Green has 6.50 vs Red has 6.00.

Just thought I'd mention it.

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Old 02-08-2008, 12:04 AM   #45
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralRunner
If such an example were to be created, it should be separate from the existing one. I like it as is, because it is short and to the point, that point being that rifle combat in GURPS can kill you very quickly.
I was thinking the same thing - sounds like a great candidate for Ranged Example Four DHC. : )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman
Emphasis by me
Because i recently discussed this part, i think the rule is meant to give the combatant the consciuos option to strike a random location, not to replace the torso default. B398 under torso says that "If you dont specify a hitlocation, you are attacking the torso", B400 says nothing about that part getting overruled, just that "random" is also a valid hitlocation. I just would allow aimed attack at random locations at all, but that isnt supported by the RAW.
Mmm - okay, I can see that. These are the kinds of things I'm trying to work out early in the project, so I don't end up with a few dozen examples and then suddenly have to go through them one at a time to change something I should have been doing since the beginning.

I'm kind of on the fence now - I think I may go back through the initial nine and only use random Hit Location for those examples where the "roll" indicated a non-Torso hit anyway, and change the others to reflect Torso as the default target. Anyone think that's a step backwards in terms of "utilizing every RAW option possible"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bearded One
This may seem like a nit since it doesn't affect the flow of combat at all. Still....
In Close Cbt #2, the introductory sentence says that the higher DX goes first since they have the same Basic Speed. Except that in this example they don't. Green has 6.50 vs Red has 6.00.

Just thought I'd mention it.

-- The Bearded One
Appreciate it The Bearded One, an error is an error no matter how tiny - pick those nits! Fixed.

There's already a lot of examples I'd like to work on for this, but I was also thinking I'd like to do a similar project but on the other end of the spectrum - instead of "every RAW option possible", do "quick and dirty GURPS" using as few options as possible (a couple of folks have mentioned that reading these examples makes them "want to play D&D", which is most emphatically not what I was going for!)
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Old 02-08-2008, 04:48 AM   #46
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
I'm kind of on the fence now - I think I may go back through the initial nine and only use random Hit Location for those examples where the "roll" indicated a non-Torso hit anyway, and change the others to reflect Torso as the default target. Anyone think that's a step backwards in terms of "utilizing every RAW option possible"?
I think thats the easiest way to handle the issue, and i dont consider it a step backward, and i also like to point out that you will get in serious trouble with utilizing all options if you start to add MA, Kromm allready stated that all the options wherent meant to be used at the same time, just the ones that suit the desired feeling.
On a side note, this specific rule isnt marked as optional, it seems to be just a normal combat option so i dont see it as any more optional then the rest of the hitlocation rules.
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:32 AM   #47
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonsbane
I think no... So please go on! That should be very interesting and extremely useful.
I'll start a new thread when I have something that has a chance of being stable.
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:43 AM   #48
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
Close Combat - Example Two

Zach Red HP: 14, FP: 6
Opts to Parry and Retreat (B377), and moves out of Close Combat. Rolls 3d6 against his effective Parry of 13 (-3 for Deceptive Attack, +3 for Retreat) and gets 14 - he fails to Parry, and is now Grappled.

Arthur Green HP: 6
Uses his unused Step to 'follow' Zach and remain in Close Combat (B377).
Arthur Green doesn't need a Step to remain in Close Combat. In fact Zach Red didn't actually Retreat - he just tried to but his Retreat was prevented by the successful Grapple of Arthur Green.


By the way, very nice combat examples - just the thing I was looking for to present to my players - but I have always been to lazy to do it myself.
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:54 AM   #49
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Mook:

Out of curiosity, are you interested in running "arena matches"? Pit one character against another, and see what comes out? Keep a log so people can see what happened and how the rules worked?

I imagine that if you want to get crazy, we can start demonstrating Martial Arts abilities (techniques, etc.) as well as optional rules... but not all at once.

If you want to get REALLY crazy, we can demonstrate really chambara-crazy stuff, cinematic fights (one vs. many, one vs. one cinematic), or even supers stuff (though I'm no good with supers, I think...)
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Last edited by Lonewulf; 02-08-2008 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 02-08-2008, 11:43 AM   #50
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHelmet
Arthur Green doesn't need a Step to remain in Close Combat. In fact Zach Red didn't actually Retreat - he just tried to but his Retreat was prevented by the successful Grapple of Arthur Green.
Ah, gotcha. I was a little unclear on that so I stuck to a hard-line interpretation of B377, "Your step back takes place immediately. It is assumed to occur as your foe is striking." But I see that the FAQ specifically mentions this, and you're right (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/FAQ4-3.html#SS3.4.3.6). I'll rewrite this section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHelmet
By the way, very nice combat examples - just the thing I was looking for to present to my players - but I have always been to lazy to do it myself.
Thanks! I've been too lazy to do it for quite a long time as well, but now that I'm started it's really helping me get a better grip on the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewulf
Mook:

Out of curiosity, are you interested in running "arena matches"?
Though that sounds like fun, I think running 'arena matches' would pretty quickly overwhelm me - sort of the difference between the controlled conditions of a laboratory (me writing the examples one at a time to illustrate specific rules) and field work out in the wild (actual arena combat between a wide variety of PCs).

Regarding Martial Arts - from a GM/gamer point of view, I can't wait to read through it; from the point of view of incorporating it into combat examples, I'm dreading it. : )

--

I do have a question/comment on firearm scopes, from Ranged Example Two. The rifle has an Accuracy of "6+3", which I understood as:

Turn 1: Aim (get +9 from weapon Acc and scope)
Turn 2: Aim (+1 for Aiming)
Turn 3: Aim (+1 for Aiming)
TOTAL Bonus: +11

But I think now this should be:

Turn 1: Aim (get +6 for weapon Acc, +1 for scope)
Turn 2: Aim (+1 for Aiming, +1 for scope )
Turn 3: Aim (+1 for Aiming, +1 for scope)
TOTAL Bonus: +11

So just by luck I think I got the correct total bonus even though in my head I had it wrong. Assuming the +1 for continued Aiming and the +1 for the scope do progress concurrently like that, I'll rewrite a little to include those calculations in the example.
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