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Old 08-03-2009, 11:52 AM   #32
Join Date: Sep 2008
Default Re: Instant Counterattack

Originally Posted by kenclary
The opening is small, probably only a real opening to one direction (the one you're about to attack through), and is only going to be noticed by you, the person who created it. Some other attacker with ETS might be able to notice it, and someone with ETS and ATR might be able to see it and take advantage of it. (The mecahnics don't really support someone with ATR being able to exploit other people's Parries, but I can hardly call that a shortcoming of Riposte or Counterattack.)
I can't think of a way to have an opening that can only be exploited from one angle and yet lasts long enough that the person can defend him or herself from other attacks. In addition, the fact that more than just Parry is penalized implies that the enemy is in some sort of stance that isn't very good for defense in general, meaning he or she should be suffering a penalty to defense from everyone. If it were only Parry, I could explain it as the weapon not being in the correct position to mount an effective defense against an attack from the defender's direction. There are some issues with this (so, you can defend perfectly well against attacks from the front-right and front-left, but not attacks from front-and-center?), but it could be workable. Of course, a Riposte/Counterattack isn't something where all that's wrong is the weapon is out of plane to defend.

Originally Posted by kenclary
GURPS has a different mechanic for making a big, everyone-in-the-theater-audience-can-see-it opening that any other attacker can take advantage of: Beat, which uses a ST-based contest.
Beat represents knocking the enemy's weapon out of plane to defend, thus it only penalizes Parry. Note that, when the weapon isn't in position to defend, the character suffers a penalty to all Parries. A Beat against Dodge apparently represents knocking your enemy a bit off-balance, such that he can't maneuver his legs as quickly but can still use weapons.

Originally Posted by kenclary
_Or_ the Riposte created a longer window of opportunity, since it was a purposeful one. It is not so much "faster" that you get to mess with the turn order (even ATR doesn't allow that, for the most part).
So, you've managed to open the enemy up to attack as part of parrying his weapon, and you've managed to make him stay open for a decent time period, but it's physically impossible for anyone else to exploit this? That doesn't make any sense. If you've taken his weapon out of line to parry (which is what a GURPS Riposte represents), you have some control over it, meaning it should be difficult for him to parry anything during the window of opportunity.

Originally Posted by kenclary
Yes, that's what I'm getting at, though I don't think the shortness of time is short enough to be "instant."
I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying you are the only one in position to exploit it and it's rather brief - I'm saying you are the only one in position to exploit it because it's rather brief. Put simply, anytime someone attacks, he leaves himself open for a very brief period of time. In the case of an outright miss, this is but momentary and fleeting and can only be taken advantage of with something like a Stop Hit. If you avoided the attack (Parry, Dodge, or Block), you are in better position to take advantage of it - thus you may attempt a Counterattack. If you happened to use a Judo Parry, the enemy is close enough (and open enough, as presumably your hand is already in position thanks to the Parry) that you can get in a quick grab-and-takedown - a Judo Throw. If you make an effort to send the enemy's weapon out of line to parry and quickly attack, you may attempt a Riposte.
This period of time is, as noted, very brief. However, the enemy is open - from all angles. If someone else attacks, it is either during this time period - meaning the enemy should suffer a penalty to defend - or it is after this time period - meaning you have already attempted your counter, but the enemy no longer suffers the penalty for being initially open.

Originally Posted by kenclary
I mostly agree there. I'd prefer Riposte be a more generic mechanic. "With a Riposte, you are not required to attack with same weapon you used to Parry" is a simple enough house rule.
... except that isn't what GURPS calls a Riposte. It's more like a DX-based Beat, really, and would be more difficult to pull off than a Riposte, as you'd have to focus on both moving the weapon out of line to Parry and attacking with a different body part. I'd probably require a Wait for something like that - in fact, my Ark Nekris character does something like this, and I've represented it as a Stop-Hit Feint followed by a Counterattack. If you don't want to Wait, penalties comparable to a Dual Weapon Attack would be appropriate.
Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat.
Latin: Those whom a god wishes to destroy, he first drives mad.
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counterattack, judo throw

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