Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-17-2014, 03:36 PM   #1
Otaku
 
Otaku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
Default [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Last Week: Breath-Holding; Doesn't Breathe; Filter Lungs
Next Week: Chameleon, Silent

Catfall [10] (p. B41, p. P43) is an Exotic, Physical Advantage that came about during 3e. The form it takes in Compendium I, p. 51 is the same it takes in 4e, though the wording is a bit different. If you possess Catfall, you may subtract five yards from falling distance when calculating damage: this is the same five yards one can shave off a fall via a successful Acrobatics roll and so you cannot combine the two. Catfall also allows you to attempt a DX roll to halve the damage you take from a fall. Both effects require that you're free to twist and turn and adjust as you fall: your limbs cannot be bound either.

Super Jump [10/level] (p. B89 and p. P79) is also an Exotic, Physical Advantage, which shouldn't be a surprise since for us to be discussing it alongside Catfall: I have to be convinced the two are closely enough related, plus there can't be too much too discuss. We might be looking at Flight otherwise. Each level of Super Jump doubles the distance and height you can jump. For more on calculating that, see p. B352). While jumping, your Move is equal your regular ground Move or one-fifth of your maximum long jump distance, whichever is greater... so a jump should never take more than five seconds though of course it can take less.

If you are wondering how this is related to Catfall, there are some bonuses to having Super Jump at any level. You can jump at a foe in order to perform a slam: no separate attack roll is required to make sure the jump is accurate and the slam is calculated using your maximum jumping Move. You also take no damage from falls of a distance less or equal to your maximum high jump. RAW doesn't specify whether or not you need to be able to land on your feet (or whatever you use to jump) for that to apply. I would think "yes" since it also mentions that a successful Acrobatics roll will allow you to increase the distance you can safely fall by five yards.

Yes, that is why I am covering the two together; both increase the distance you can safely fall and can stack with each other. The two have excellent synergy as those focused on jumping fantastic heights are often depicted in fiction (especially video games) as jumping from ground level onto higher perches or off walls to jump even higher than their maximum high jump; the five yard bump is less important than rolling DX to halve the damage you take from such a fall.

Modifiers
Powers p.43 has Feather Fall (+20%); this causes Catfall to work regardless of whether you are bound are land on your feet. The Parachute (-30%) Limitation is also unique to Catfall: your ability to fall more safely is dependent on some sort of natural "parachute", like skin flaps. If the fall takes less than two seconds, it won't deploy. It also requires enough space (open air radius equal to your height) and won't work in thinner atmospheres.

Bouncing (+50%) is an Enhancement found on p. P80 that further strengthens the connection between Super Jump and Catfall... but it is a bit complicated and I'm still worry I'm writing too much of RAW out in these posts. With Bouncing, you can attempt to safely rebound from impacts with the ground or other obstacles by making a DX, Acrobatics, or Jumping roll. With success you take no damage from the collision and bounce back with 90% of your impact velocity (if this is below your jumping move you can choose to just stop instead). If you fail you take damage as normal and don't rebound, or as RAW puts it "Splat". The roll to rebound is as -5 for each multiple of your jumping move (and fraction thereof) by which your impact velocity exceeds said jumping move. Maneuverable (+50%) allows you to steer yourself midjump, to the point that while in the middle of a jump (that is calculated in the usual faction) you have your jump Move as air Move.

There are also several Limitations: Full Power Only (-10%), Horizontal Only (-25%), Lighter Than Air (-10%), Planetary (-5%) and Projectile (-20%). Vertical Only (-25%). Full power only means if you're not making your maximum jump: calculate distance, speed etc. without the benefits of Super Jump if you're making a smaller jump. Horizontal Only affects broad jumps and not falling damage while Vertical Only only affects high jumps and falling damage. Lighter Than Air functions in a manner similar to how it does for Flight. Planetary means you only have Super Jump while on a planet or other object with a sufficiently strong gravitational or magnetic field while projectile makes yourself a projectile; you lack control while airborne and take full normal collision damage should you crash into something. A DX or Jumping roll is required while landing or to collide with a target intentionally.

Related Traits
Brachiator (p. B41), Clinging (p. B43, p. P45), Flight (p. B56, p. P50) and Walk On Air (p. B97, p. P87) are all other options for moving through the air and can be combined with Catfall and Super Jump, though Flight ends up being quite redundant. A fictional example that combines Brachiator, Clinging, Super Jump and maybe Catfall is Spider-Man, and he is a great example of how they compliment each other: he regularly uses a combination of Brachiator, Clinging and Super Jump to get around in whatever method is most efficient and when combined with Catfall, it gives a mechanical option apart from setting specific rules to explain why he usually lands safely from falls (in addition of course to his other powers). As hopefully demonstrated by the discussion on just Brachiator and Clinging, covering the entire run of Advantages seemed like too much content. Flight in particular is likely robust enough on its own.

So...

1) Have you used either Catfall or Super Jump? Observed it in action when another PC or NPC made use of either? If so, how did it perform?
2) Do they seem fairly priced?
3) What about the Enhancements and Limitations?
4) How about the differences between 3e and 4e? I personally am interesting in Bouncing, as it was its own Advantage in 3e and works a little differently now.
5) Traits I should have covered alongside these two? Should I have put these two together? Did I miss something else that actually made more sense with Catfall?
6) Useful Traits to combine with these two that I missed?
7) Any interesting or amusing stories involving either trait?
8) Anything else that seems relevant to discussing Catfall and Super Jump
__________________
My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :)

Last edited by Otaku; 11-25-2014 at 11:42 AM.
Otaku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 01:56 AM   #2
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ky´v, Ukraine
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Personally, I dislike Super Jump and Catfall. For outrageous jumps, Flight with Requires Surface seems so much cooler (with reduced Flight Speed if needed) [total 24-32]. For safe landings, again, take Flight -50% Gliding plus reduced Flight Speed to 1, net [12-20]. Note: neither flight is Winged!
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 05:50 AM   #3
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Personally, I dislike Super Jump and Catfall. For outrageous jumps, Flight with Requires Surface seems so much cooler (with reduced Flight Speed if needed) [total 24-32]. For safe landings, again, take Flight -50% Gliding plus reduced Flight Speed to 1, net [12-20]. Note: neither flight is Winged!
I don't see how your build create super jumpers or survivable falls. Requires surface is for Wuxia tree limb walking, not jumping or falling.

Super slow gliding flight for falling is unrealistic for anything larger than tiny, not for straightforward automatic breakfalls.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 05:53 AM   #4
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ky´v, Ukraine
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
I don't see how your build create super jumpers or survivable falls. Requires surface is for Wuxia tree limb walking, not jumping or falling.
You need to touch a surface once per 5 seconds. You can 'fly' quite far in 5 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Super slow gliding flight for falling is unrealistic for anything larger than tiny, not for straightforward automatic breakfalls.
I'm talking about point costs. If we get into a situation where we're making supers or something, I'll take wingless gliding representing modest gravitic repulsors or whatever, over Catfall, any day, because they allow falling safely from any height. So in a pure contest, Catfall is overpriced.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 06:05 AM   #5
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Falling has been one of the more constant dangers for mankind. But I agree that for any game even vaguely super, auto-break-fall for 10 points seems overpriced.

Squeezing every super jump into one of exactly 5 seconds feels inefficient and clunky. Shouldn't strength, mass, or something get involved in that?

Also surviving falls doesn't always come from falling slowly. That's parachuting, not really gliding anyway.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 10:06 AM   #6
Joe
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
1) Have you used either Catfall or Super Jump?
2) Do they seem fairly priced?
I, too, have generally found that Super Jump does not meet my needs.

I tend to want to use it in fairly cinematic games: wuxia, urban fantasy, and so on. But if you only a buy a level or two of Super Jump, you're not getting anywhere near the amazing jumping abilities seen in these kinds of genres. And if you buy more than a few levels, the cost compares unfavorably with Flight.

Super Jump seems to come into its own a little bit in campaigns where the genre forbids real flying, putting the full-on Flight advantage off-limits. Still, though, the cost of jumping any serious distance can be prohibitive.

Those are my two cents - sorry to be negative about it! Others may have a more balanced perspective.
Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 10:44 AM   #7
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Super Jump probably needs fixed. It's almost insignificant at low levels but can be game breaking if you invest in it (acceleration = massive slams) as an attack power.
naloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 08:17 AM   #8
Leynok
 
Leynok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Australia WA
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Super Jump probably needs fixed. It's almost insignificant at low levels but can be game breaking if you invest in it (acceleration = massive slams) as an attack power.
As a test, I decided to see what someone with 10, 20 and 50 levels of Super Jump would be able to do from a slam, assuming average other stats (5 Basic Move, needed for jump distance and 10 HP for slam damage).
Needless to say it gets stupid fast. 10 levels did 239 dice of damage. 244668 dice of damage... and 50 levels... 1,576,259,869,579,674 dice of damage. (Disclaimer, that they may not be exactly 50 levels, I may have double counted, or missed a count a few times, but even assuming I missed a few counts, it won't change from being a stupid amount of damage).
From my understanding is enough to destroy, or at least cripple a planet. for 500 points.
Super Jump needs fixing, quite badly.
Leynok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 09:12 AM   #9
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leynok View Post
As a test, I decided to see what someone with 10, 20 and 50 levels of Super Jump would be able to do from a slam, assuming average other stats (5 Basic Move, needed for jump distance and 10 HP for slam damage).
Needless to say it gets stupid fast. 10 levels did 239 dice of damage. 244668 dice of damage... and 50 levels... 1,576,259,869,579,674 dice of damage. (Disclaimer, that they may not be exactly 50 levels, I may have double counted, or missed a count a few times, but even assuming I missed a few counts, it won't change from being a stupid amount of damage).
From my understanding is enough to destroy, or at least cripple a planet. for 500 points.
Super Jump needs fixing, quite badly.
That isnt the fault of Super Jump so much as the Slam rules which have thier own threads on fixe and such.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 09:21 AM   #10
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#19): Catfall; Super Jump

Super Jump is different in kind from Flight. Flight is continuous movement; the sort of jumping you see in martial arts films, where you continue to move, touching a surface every second or every few seconds, could plausibly be mechanicked as a variant on Flight, or perhaps as a variant on Brachiation. Other sorts, a kangaroo's movement or perhaps even a rabbit's, seem effectively to be forms of Enhanced Move (Running). But some forms of jumping are discontinuous movement: You go from point A to point B and stop, or you take a run up to A and then jump, or you run to A, jump to B, run to C, jump to D, and so on, as in a rooftop chase. And that's what Super Jump is intended to mimic. It's kind of akin to Warp.

It's important that Super Jump as defined in the Basic Set doesn't necessarily boost movement speed. If you have Move 6, you can jump 6 yards in a second, 12 yards in 2 seconds, 18 yards in 3 seconds, 24 yards in 4 seconds, and 30 yards in 5 secondsŚall of which have the same movement speed of 6 yards/second (roughly 12 mph). At that point you reach the upper limit of 5 seconds per jump, so jumping (say) 60 yards gets you to 12 yards/second.

And, yes, exponential growth does lead to absurd high end results. But that applies to strength, too; I worked out in GURPS Supers how many levels of Strength you need to buy to be able to smash a planet with one punch. (Note that you also have to buy a lot of Damage Reduction if you don't want to turn into a thin red smear on a crater.) The answer to that, though, is for the GM not to allow enough points to buy that ability, or not to allow it to be bought up to that high a level, or to set a cap on quantity of damageŚall of which are legitimate if you're not running a high-end supers campaign.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advantage, advantage of the week, catfall, super jump, week, [basic]

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.