Force Sword Techniques -

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

Fast Draw doesn't negate that readying time?

Originally Posted by Mailanka

+100% cost for " rapid blade coherence?"

It's a perk at most. Kelly Pederson says a variable length weapon can change Reach by up to one yard (see p. 30, Quick-Extension, Pyramid #3/09: Space Opera with a Fast-Draw roll. With a regular Fast-Draw (Force Sword) roll you should be able to activate a blade as a Free Action since it only takes a single Ready maneuver to do so normally.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

Hmm. Is this predicated on the idea that changing the length of the blade takes no time right down to it being a couple of inches long? Then BAM! full length?

More that the diagrams of the techniques show most of that "turn it on into him" stuff as being basically in contact. Plus if it takes a second to form, perhaps it extends from the blade, so it's reach C for the first half, adn then full extension the second.

Mostly, It was just waving my hands at "you have to be close to do this," and Reach seemed a good way to do it.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

Hmmmm. Easy enough to house rule that out but....Anyone got any thoughts on how to make the on-off-on-gack! attacks work by the rules? An advantage or perk?

You can just say that the swords work like that, but that doesn't actually match what we see on screen (but neither do these techniques).

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You can just say that the swords work like that, but that doesn't actually match what we see on screen (but neither do these techniques).

What we see on screen is that the length of time it take to activate varies. I would guess that activating it faster shortens battery life, and maybe wears down some of the parts faster. The very first lightsabre activation we see is nearly instant.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

It's a perk at most. Kelly Pederson says a variable length weapon can change Reach by up to one yard (see p. 30, Quick-Extension, Pyramid #3/09: Space Opera with a Fast-Draw roll. With a regular Fast-Draw (Force Sword) roll you should be able to activate a blade as a Free Action since it only takes a single Ready maneuver to do so normally.

I think the problem is technological. That is, when you ignite a lightsaber, it takes a second to go "pshhht" and go to its full length. You can't flick it on and off and on in less than a second not because you can't hit the switch that fast (you can), but because the blade won't react that fast (like you can't turn a computer on and off and on in less than a second).

So you have two options: Either you get a better force sword (hence the increased cost), or you houserule "even more cinematic forceswords." nly in the latter case could a perk work, it's sort of a Rule Option perk, kinda like taking the silencer perk or the infinite ammo perk.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

I think the problem is technological. That is, when you ignite a lightsaber, it takes a second to go "pshhht" and go to its full length. You can't flick it on and off and on in less than a second not because you can't hit the switch that fast (you can), but because the blade won't react that fast (like you can't turn a computer on and off and on in less than a second).

I haven't watched the movies in a while, but I think the 'activation' time for a lightsaber blade does have a 'dramatic licence' factor.
When we see them activated in 'training' or for 'drama' - you can see the blade extending in a second (or maybe 2); but I'm pretty sure there are scenes where someone has a deactivated lightsaber (in hand probably), and when their opponent swings their already activated lightsaber, they can activate and parry effectively immediately.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by SCAR

I haven't watched the movies in a while, but I think the 'activation' time for a lightsaber blade does have a 'dramatic licence' factor.
When we see them activated in 'training' or for 'drama' - you can see the blade extending in a second (or maybe 2); but I'm pretty sure there are scenes where someone has a deactivated lightsaber (in hand probably), and when their opponent swings their already activated lightsaber, they can activate and parry effectively immediately.

As noted, this varies, and it pretty much varies with the era of the film. In the first movie, they walked up and swapped out the handle with a handle-plus blade/rotoscope, and the tech didn't exist well to make it extend. Except, of course, in that scene with Ben getting ready for Vader, where they could position the fighters ideally to catch the reflections. They started with the saber pointed to the camera, and slowly moved it off angle, then colorized the resulting reflection.

Once they started getting good (or better) with finding the "blade" and digitizing it, they got the "extension" down . . . but it's still often instantly available when needed.

Chalk up another to the speed of plot, I guess.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

As noted, this varies, and it pretty much varies with the era of the film. In the first movie, they walked up and swapped out the handle with a handle-plus blade/rotoscope, and the tech didn't exist well to make it extend. Except, of course, in that scene with Ben getting ready for Vader, where they could position the fighters ideally to catch the reflections. They started with the saber pointed to the camera, and slowly moved it off angle, then colorized the resulting reflection.

Once they started getting good (or better) with finding the "blade" and digitizing it, they got the "extension" down . . . but it's still often instantly available when needed.

Chalk up another to the speed of plot, I guess.

So the speed of activation for a lightsaber is limited by the TL of the computers detecting and 'controlling' the blade!

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

I think the problem is technological. That is, when you ignite a lightsaber, it takes a second to go "pshhht" and go to its full length. You can't flick it on and off and on in less than a second not because you can't hit the switch that fast (you can), but because the blade won't react that fast (like you can't turn a computer on and off and on in less than a second).

So you have two options: Either you get a better force sword (hence the increased cost), or you houserule "even more cinematic forceswords." nly in the latter case could a perk work, it's sort of a Rule Option perk, kinda like taking the silencer perk or the infinite ammo perk.

Well, there's no requirement that force swords act like that in a given campaign, although that is the GURPS assumption. Of course, as force sword users very often have some psionic undertones (particularly when it comes to deflecting bullets/blasters/whatever), I'd still allow Trakata in many cases - maneuvers like Creating the Void and Hyperspace wouldn't work, but others still could ("I forsaw this opening and activated my lightsaber a second ago, so now that I'm in position it's switching on!").

In a setting where they do work like that, I'd only allow the technological solution (I'd probably go with your +1 CF), and a Perk would only allow for a player to retroactively claim they activated their weapon a second ago (with a successful Fast-Draw or similar roll - I could see cause to use Precognitive Parry here), not to allow them to do the rapid switch-on-switch-off thing.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Well, there's no requirement that force swords act like that in a given campaign, although that is the GURPS assumption.

Of course, sure. My point is not "No, you can't do that," only "You can't do that RAW" (meaning "Rules as written.")

Originally Posted by Joseph Paul

For purposes of guiding the discussion I need to make it clear that I am not concerned with Star Wars canon but rather with exploring what can be done with lightsaber analogues in GURPS.

...hence my answer.

Personally, I love the idea of "flicker-blades" that spend most of their time off and flash on only at the moments of attack. The practitioner would have to focus mostly on dodge as his defense, but keeping the blade off would greatly enhance feinting, though it would be difficult to strike that way (you cannot see where the blade is, so you're striking blind, after a fashion. Probably apply a penalty, and a technique to get around that)

The real advantage of fighting with your blade on all the time, in addition to it being easier to see where you're attacking, is that it's much safer to parry with. It's also more generally intimidating.

But there should be room for more than one style/approach to force swordsmanship. If the standard version is Space-Kenjutsu, the flicker-blade style would be Space-Iajutsu