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Old 04-20-2022, 08:44 AM   #91
Cheeseball
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Default Re: Ideas for a New long-term Campaign

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Which really, when you think about it, is peanuts compared to the characters we can just make up with GURPS rules.

One important thing to verify about these new characters though, is that they are all Beautiful or Very Beautiful, and that they have no Quirks or Disads. Right?
I've actually created a list of acceptable Disadvantages for players taking those characters to freely and voluntarily choose from. It's not very long, but there are some Disadvantages (like negative reaction modifiers from Appearance), that aren't very favorable for HumInt's work and would disqualify for the job.

Code of Honor, Compulsive Behavior, Dependents, Fanaticism, Duty, Enemy, Secret, Callous, Curious, Intolerace, Sense of Duty and Workaholic.

And yes, I agree with you, Laurent Simons would probably have an IQ of 13.
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Old 04-20-2022, 09:59 AM   #92
Dalin
 
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Default Re: Ideas for a New long-term Campaign

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Seriously, the system perfectly represents this particular case. If we assume that Laurent Simons has an IQ of 13, and that means he learns 4 times faster, than completing first grade, twelfth grade, and high school takes 12 years, and a bachelor's degree 4, then: 12/4+4/4+6=10, so Laurent Simons, with an IQ of 13, was able to complete his bachelor's degree at the age of 10.
I'm reminded, though, of Kromm's frequent admonition not to think of GURPS as a "reality simulator."

Moreover, in real life, there's more to one's standing in the world than raw intelligence and academic accomplishments. Child prodigies struggle with peer interactions due to lagging physical, emotional, and social development. This is well-attested in educational literature. In GURPS terms, they acquire disadvantages and quirks.
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Old 04-20-2022, 10:41 AM   #93
johndallman
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Default Re: Ideas for a New long-term Campaign

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Originally Posted by Cheeseball View Post
Seriously, the system perfectly represents this particular case. If we assume that Laurent Simons has an IQ of 13, and that means he learns 4 times faster, than completing first grade, twelfth grade, and high school takes 12 years, and a bachelor's degree 4, then: 12/4+4/4+6=10, so Laurent Simons, with an IQ of 13, was able to complete his bachelor's degree at the age of 10.
No, none of this makes any sense. People with IQ 13 don't learn four times faster. People with IQ 13 who go to college don't do so at age 9. Child prodigies have something more like an highly specific and narrow Talent, and are very rare.
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Old 04-20-2022, 11:18 AM   #94
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No, none of this makes any sense. People with IQ 13 don't learn four times faster. People with IQ 13 who go to college don't do so at age 9. Child prodigies have something more like an highly specific and narrow Talent, and are very rare.
Indeed. Note the only trait (that I'm aware of) that speeds up learning in GURPS is Talent, and there it's only -10% to learning time per level, to a maximum of -40%, which isn't even learning at twice the rate (it's about +67% to learning rate). If we were to assume learning is instead something that calls for an IQ roll, even then IQ 13 only succeeds about 1.67x as often as IQ 10, again for around +67% to learning rate (this matching the maximum for talent is a coincidence; indeed, they're actually just close, not exact matches). So I have no idea where x4 to learning rate comes from.

People who graduate significantly early are an extremely rarified few. And note it's not just that they need to have markedly above-average academic intelligence - they also need to be fortunate enough to be in a position to have their talent recognized and capitalized upon, they (and their parents) have to be willing to go through school at an accelerated pace (and their school needs to be capable of handling bringing them through at such a pace... or there needs to be some way for them to transfer to a school that can handle this), etc. And the more rare a person is, the greater their presence stretches one's sense of disbelief, particularly if they opt for going into the workplace in a manner that is "against type" (like an academic savant going into the combat arm of the military).
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Old 04-20-2022, 11:34 AM   #95
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No, none of this makes any sense. People with IQ 13 don't learn four times faster. People with IQ 13 who go to college don't do so at age 9. Child prodigies have something more like an highly specific and narrow Talent, and are very rare.

Always according to the game system, every skill point has its equivalent in hours of formal learning (about 200 hours). How many points does a student with IQ 10 need to become a Biologist, and how many does another student with IQ 13 need? The first one needs 16 points. The second needs 4 points. So 16/4 = 4, or four times faster.

What would be the equivalence of those points to hours according to the system? The first one needs 3.200 hours, the second one needs 800 hours. At 6 hours per credit and about 120 credits for a bachelor's degree, at 3 hours/week and 15 weeks/semester per credit, that is about 5.400 hours on a 4-year Bachelor's degree. In the GURPS system that would hand out about 27 skill points, enough to spend 16-20 on Biology (up to level 12-13), and a few more elsewhere (for an IQ 10 character). What would happen if we give the same number of points to a character with IQ 13? That character would have a Biology score of up to 15-16. The logical thought is to assume that the knowledge is acquired faster, not that receiving the same lessons you can end up having the level of a PhD.

I thought this was axiomatic, but maybe it's just my opinion.

Last edited by Cheeseball; 04-20-2022 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 04-20-2022, 11:38 AM   #96
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for what itís worthÖ i donít know what value russia would see in fielding a bioengineer as a field agent? If itís for bio containment the immediately relevant degree for that kind of work would almost certainly be epidemiology. like even if they were planning on deploying a bio-weapon itíd be better to whip the thing up in a russian lab then transport it covertly.
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Old 04-20-2022, 11:43 AM   #97
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for what itís worthÖ i donít know what value russia would see in fielding a bioengineer as a field agent? If itís for bio containment the immediately relevant degree for that kind of work would almost certainly be epidemiology. like even if they were planning on deploying a bio-weapon itíd be better to whip the thing up in a russian lab then transport it covertly.
Sure, Public Health MSc = Expert Skill (Epidemiology). Directorate S is engaged in Illegal Intelligence: Includes thirteen departments responsible for preparing and planting "illegal agents" abroad, "biological espionage", recruitment of foreign citizens on the Russian territory and other duties. But their civilian studies do not necessarily have to be related to their military career.
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Old 04-20-2022, 12:21 PM   #98
newton
 
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Always according to the game system, every skill point has its equivalent in hours of formal learning (about 200 hours). How many points does a student with IQ 10 need to become a Biologist, and how many does another student with IQ 13 need? The first one needs 16 points. The second needs 4 points. So 16/4 = 4, or four times faster.

What would be the equivalence of those points to hours according to the system? The first one needs 3.200 hours, the second one needs 800 hours. At 6 hours per credit and about 120 credits for a bachelor's degree, at 3 hours/week and 15 weeks/semester per credit, that is about 5.400 hours on a 4-year Bachelor's degree. In the GURPS system that would hand out about 27 skill points, enough to spend 16-20 on Biology (up to level 12-13), and a few more elsewhere (for an IQ 10 character). What would happen if we give the same number of points to a character with IQ 13? That character would have a Biology score of up to 15-16. The logical thought is to assume that the knowledge is acquired faster, not that receiving the same lessons you can end up having the level of a PhD.

I thought this was axiomatic, but maybe it's just my opinion.
basic set 292 literally says that not every hour of study is an hour of learning. Smart kids might be able to learn faster but in practice they just arenít learning all the time when a class is too slow for them.


Also, people graduate on credits, not on effective skill level. Someone who just barely made it through college would have a lower skill than someone who was a diligent student.
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Old 04-20-2022, 12:35 PM   #99
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basic set 292 literally says that not every hour of study is an hour of learning. Smart kids might be able to learn faster but in practice they just arenít learning all the time when a class is too slow for them.
You are right, and that is why they seek the opportunity to go to advanced classes, or start (and finish) their studies early. You can play a very smart character who was stuck in school for years, but I don't see the point of it if we're talking about elite ones.

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Also, people graduate on credits, not on effective skill level. Someone who just barely made it through college would have a lower skill than someone who was a diligent student.
I think several things are getting mixed up here. If a student is not diligent, then he wastes his time, thus getting no skill points. IQ has nothing to do with it. And by going to class to listen to a lesson you already know, you don't learn anything, so you don't get any skill points either.
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Old 04-20-2022, 01:22 PM   #100
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You are right, and that is why they seek the opportunity to go to advanced classes, or start (and finish) their studies early. You can play a very smart character who was stuck in school for years, but I don't see the point of it if we're talking about elite ones.



I think several things are getting mixed up here. If a student is not diligent, then he wastes his time, thus getting no skill points. IQ has nothing to do with it. And by going to class to listen to a lesson you already know, you don't learn anything, so you don't get any skill points either.
First of all: schools often only offer advanced classes for certain metrics of advanced, AP classes in highscholl might let someone with an IQ12 finish college faster but only for some values of faster.

Secondly: I should have made the distinction bewteen IQ and effort, if a student is struggling they might actually put more hours into learning through tutoring and furious studying but still might come out with a lower effective skill.

Regardless none of this talk of statlines and skill levels will make having more than one late twenties child-prodigy turned special forces character more believable to your players especially ones without significant disadvantages.
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