Costs Fatigue and Affliction: Advantage

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

You make the afflictor pay, unless the advantage is fully under the control of the subject.

Hmm. I don't think I'd go that way. That leads to the odd condition where Costs FP 10 would have radically different effects on the cost of the Affliction advantage, depending on whether you applied it to the base Affliction or the included advantage, but the same cost to the person using the Affliction.
Instead, I'd prefer to say that any advantage that imposes a negative condition on the target besides the base effects of the advantage is automatically under the control of the person afflicted, rather than the afflictor. This stops hacks like the "Warp, Costs 10 FP", where you teleport someone and exhaust them, as well as similar tricks like slapping on Temporary Disadvantages to reduce the cost and further screw the target. It would also mean that advantages with built-in extra costs, like Warp's natural FP cost, would need to be modified with Reduced Fatigue in order to be afflicted on someone and still be under the afflictor's control.

[capnq]

Originally Posted by tanniynim

This thread just got me thinking: What happens if I want to afflict an advantage that costs 10 FP or some other obscene number? If it automatically causes the use of that FP, isn't this, in some ways, considered an Enhancement as opposed to a Limitation?

"Costs 10 FP" is functionally close enough to the Incapacitation Enhancement that I would use those numbers as a pricing guide.

[transmetahuman]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Hmm. I don't think I'd go that way. That leads to the odd condition where Costs FP 10 would have radically different effects on the cost of the Affliction advantage, depending on whether you applied it to the base Affliction or the included advantage, but the same cost to the person using the Affliction.

Not necessarily, as my examples above showed; the version that cost FP once when the Affliction was used ended up more expensive than the per-minute version. But I really only gave the second example for the people who insist that an Afflicted advantage can never be under the control of the subject - I'd probably insist on version one or three, or just forbid the Costs FP. Both for your reasons and because IMO an Affliction effect is meant to be "orphaned" - all decisions about it are made on the turn the attack is made, then it's out of the afflictor's hands. Version two keeps a sort of link with the afflictor, able to turn the subject's advantage on and off. I don't like it.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Instead, I'd prefer to say that any advantage that imposes a negative condition on the target besides the base effects of the advantage is automatically under the control of the person afflicted, rather than the afflictor. This stops hacks like the "Warp, Costs 10 FP", where you teleport someone and exhaust them, as well as similar tricks like slapping on Temporary Disadvantages to reduce the cost and further screw the target. It would also mean that advantages with built-in extra costs, like Warp's natural FP cost, would need to be modified with Reduced Fatigue in order to be afflicted on someone and still be under the afflictor's control.

Agreed. You have a further good point, bringing up Temp Disads; there are other ways to munchkin up an afflicted advantage than Costs FP/HP. Easiest just to exercise GM judgment and forbid that class of limitations on afflicted advantages altogether (unless, again, the subject gets full control).

[Not another shrubbery]

You shouldn't put Costs FP on an Affliction like that, IMO, excepting "wish" ones which are under the target's control. It's better to link an IA(Fat).

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Easiest just to exercise GM judgment and forbid that class of limitations on afflicted advantages altogether (unless, again, the subject gets full control).

I'm starting to strongly think that there should be two different prices for Afflicting an advantage - one for the curse version, where it's under the afflictor's control, and one for the buff version, where it actually gives the target the ability, including the ability to control it, temporarily. Just offhand, I'd say the curse version could probably be reduced to 1% per point of advantage cost - I don't see how afflicting Warp as a "teleport you into the ocean, haha" power should be over 10 times as expensive as afflicting a Divine Curse is. Right now, the distinction is all special effects, basically, which honestly leads to a lot of sillyness. If I change you into a frog for your margin of failure in minutes (afflicting Alternate Form under the afflictor's control), that would seem to be rather less useful than giving you the ability to turn into a frog whenever you want for your margin of failure in minutes.

[The Wrathchild]

I had a reply from Kromm in a privat message on the OQ. Part of it reads: "You cannot Afflict others with advantages that cost FP, though, if that's what you're asking". It wasn't, but that part is pertinent here.

[nick012000]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

In both these cases, I wouldn't allow Affliction for Flight or any movement ability because the afflictor would have to determine all the details of the effect at the moment he afflicts it, and neither he nor the subject would be able to change the subject's course or speed after that. Use Telekinesis instead.

"I make him grow wings. Painfully."

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by The Wrathchild

I had a reply from Kromm in a privat message on the OQ. Part of it reads: "You cannot Afflict others with advantages that cost FP, though, if that's what you're asking". It wasn't, but that part is pertinent here.

Of course, that would mean all the builds in published books involving Affliction: Warp are illegal, since FP expenditure is a basic part of the advantage.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Of course, that would mean all the builds in published books involving Affliction: Warp are illegal, since FP expenditure is a basic part of the advantage.

Incorrect. Warp FP expenditure is optional, it only increases the chances. What Kromm said that you can't for that optional expense on them

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

... all the builds in published books involving Affliction: Warp

There aren't that many, are there? <honest curiosity>