Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well?

~~Keiko~~ · 02-07-2013, 05:18 PM

In the sense of superhero comics with their conventions and style. You can easily create superhuman characters using the GURPS rules set but I've heard that it doesn't do superhero comics very well at all. Some say its because the game's default approach is just too realistic for comic's highly cinematic and unrealistic nature. Is that basically it?

sir_pudding · 02-07-2013, 05:23 PM

3e had all sorts of problems. The Psionics rules weren't well balanced with other parts of the system, powers weren't very well integrated in general, Supers had a bunch of alternate rules that really didn't play nice with everything else. I suspect that most of "GURPS doesn't handle Supers well" is mostly about 3e.

4e still has a couple of sticky areas. In particular it's expensive to build a "brick" with just ST alone and some of the fixes start looking a lot like arcane and fiddly HERO powerbuilding tricks.

Anthony · 02-07-2013, 05:26 PM

A lot of the problem is the stats of equipment; a theoretically normal martial artist who hits as hard as a rocket launcher looks weird in GURPS.

ErhnamDJ · 02-07-2013, 05:34 PM

The biggest problem I've encountered (and I've played in a number of supers games) is that the trait pricing encourages people to take abilities that aren't very much like what you would expect from superheroes.

In particular, the strongman characters and those who can survive extreme amounts of damage are both incredibly expensive in GURPS due to the linear trait pricing which says it costs the same amount of points to go from ST 99 to 100 as it costs to go from 10 to 11. It's the same with DR.

That pricing scheme incentivizes people to take the abilities that are underpriced, such as Mind Control, Snatcher, and Insubstantiality rather than the set of abilities that we see often in comic books.

It's not that people don't want to play those kinds of characters, it's that those other abilities are so much more powerful.

Another problem is the way GURPS handles buying wealth and higher-tech weapons. It's very cheap to get trillions of dollars and purchase everything you want out of Ultra-Tech.

TL 12 [20], IQ 20 [200], Multimillionaire 6 [200], and Quick Gadgeteer [50].

You can get that guy in even the lowest point total supers games, but you can't make even the weakest bricks, like Spider-Man, on less than a couple of thousand points.

And that's without even getting into the spells-as-skills system, which is even more powerful than that.

Mostly it's just that the prices for the various traits are messed up. Techies, speedster, psychics, and wizards are many orders of magnitude better than anything else you can make at the same point total.

Fred Brackin · 02-07-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keiko

In the sense of superhero comics with their conventions and style. You can easily create superhuman characters using the GURPS rules set but I've heard that it doesn't do superhero comics very well at all. Some say its because the game's default approach is just too realistic for comic's highly cinematic and unrealistic nature. Is that basically it?

IMHO the main part f the problem is that you can not say "Here's 1000pts. go build a character" and have it work out well. The system still doesn't balance out across the whole 4-color Supers genre. 4e actually made Brick v. Blaster worse and there are some very abusive builds for Mentlaists and simalkr characters.

Mundane equipment v. Super Powers is still a problem too.

If you limited builds to a siongle general class of similar characters (all Mystery Men, all vampires, all martial artisits, etc) things might work out all right.

Also, if you _totally_ ignored pt totals and built strictloy to concet and individually balanced the concepts you might be relatively happy with the results. You can't just turn your players loose on the books though.

ericthered · 02-07-2013, 05:43 PM

The problem is mostly the linear pricing on damage related traits and absolute abilities that cost a flat amount (mind control, ect.)

You might get nice results by charging 50 points for "brick status", and change the prices on certain traits by quite a lot afterwards. (and if you didn't buy "brick" you shouldn't be doing damage by blasting, for the most part)

Fwibos · 02-07-2013, 05:58 PM

This may have already been thought up, or may be a silly idea, but what about Limited Use on ST, to reduce it's cost. After all, in most comics the hero only use the ST in a fight or for one off tricks, and so they don't need to be strong all the time.

Imion · 02-07-2013, 06:27 PM

Or just use Super-Effort for ST.

Anthony · 02-07-2013, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imion

Or just use Super-Effort for ST.

Super-Effort for ST is broken, though in a somewhat strange manner, in that it tends to go from overpriced to underpriced over a very short range of points. Super-ST 1-7 actually costs more than getting the same amount of ST normally (super-ST 7[280] is basically ST +7[70], Striking ST +23[115], Lifting ST +23[69] [254], only it costs fatigue), and past that point it rapidly outpaces other options).

Mr_Sandman · 02-07-2013, 07:00 PM

I don't think I would agree that GURPS doesn't do superheroes well. I think it can. I ran a pretty successful supers campaign for a while. Although it to be honest, it wasn't a straight up four-color comic book take on supers.

But it requires at least amount the same amount of GM planning, selection of allowed and prohibited traits, and engagement during character creation that other genres require in in GURPS, maybe even a bit more.

Part of the problem is that many GMs assume that since it's superheroes, they can let players pick anything in the book. I found GURPS Supers helpful in designing my campaign.

02-07-2013, 05:18 PM	#1
~~Keiko~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2013	Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well? In the sense of superhero comics with their conventions and style. You can easily create superhuman characters using the GURPS rules set but I've heard that it doesn't do superhero comics very well at all. Some say its because the game's default approach is just too realistic for comic's highly cinematic and unrealistic nature. Is that basically it?

02-07-2013, 05:23 PM	#2
sir_pudding Wielder of Smart Pants Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ventura CA	Re: Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well? 3e had all sorts of problems. The Psionics rules weren't well balanced with other parts of the system, powers weren't very well integrated in general, Supers had a bunch of alternate rules that really didn't play nice with everything else. I suspect that most of "GURPS doesn't handle Supers well" is mostly about 3e. 4e still has a couple of sticky areas. In particular it's expensive to build a "brick" with just ST alone and some of the fixes start looking a lot like arcane and fiddly HERO powerbuilding tricks.

02-07-2013, 05:26 PM	#3
Anthony Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA	Re: Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well? A lot of the problem is the stats of equipment; a theoretically normal martial artist who hits as hard as a rocket launcher looks weird in GURPS.

02-07-2013, 05:34 PM	#4
ErhnamDJ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: OK	Re: Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well? The biggest problem I've encountered (and I've played in a number of supers games) is that the trait pricing encourages people to take abilities that aren't very much like what you would expect from superheroes. In particular, the strongman characters and those who can survive extreme amounts of damage are both incredibly expensive in GURPS due to the linear trait pricing which says it costs the same amount of points to go from ST 99 to 100 as it costs to go from 10 to 11. It's the same with DR. That pricing scheme incentivizes people to take the abilities that are underpriced, such as Mind Control, Snatcher, and Insubstantiality rather than the set of abilities that we see often in comic books. It's not that people don't want to play those kinds of characters, it's that those other abilities are so much more powerful. Another problem is the way GURPS handles buying wealth and higher-tech weapons. It's very cheap to get trillions of dollars and purchase everything you want out of Ultra-Tech. TL 12 [20], IQ 20 [200], Multimillionaire 6 [200], and Quick Gadgeteer [50]. You can get that guy in even the lowest point total supers games, but you can't make even the weakest bricks, like Spider-Man, on less than a couple of thousand points. And that's without even getting into the spells-as-skills system, which is even more powerful than that. Mostly it's just that the prices for the various traits are messed up. Techies, speedster, psychics, and wizards are many orders of magnitude better than anything else you can make at the same point total. __________________ "For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics My blog.

02-07-2013, 05:43 PM	#6
ericthered Hero of Democracy Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: far from the ocean	Re: Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well? The problem is mostly the linear pricing on damage related traits and absolute abilities that cost a flat amount (mind control, ect.) You might get nice results by charging 50 points for "brick status", and change the prices on certain traits by quite a lot afterwards. (and if you didn't buy "brick" you shouldn't be doing damage by blasting, for the most part) __________________ Be helpful, not pedantic Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!

02-07-2013, 05:58 PM	#7
Fwibos Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI	Re: Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well? This may have already been thought up, or may be a silly idea, but what about Limited Use on ST, to reduce it's cost. After all, in most comics the hero only use the ST in a fight or for one off tricks, and so they don't need to be strong all the time. __________________ Just Bought: Succesful Job Search! Currently Buying off: Fat Sigh and Poverty. Number of signatures inspired: 1 Word of God and Word of Kromm are pretty much the same thing in my book

02-07-2013, 06:27 PM	#8
Imion Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Germany	Re: Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well? Or just use Super-Effort for ST. __________________ Feel free to add 'IMO' where appropriate.

02-07-2013, 07:00 PM	#10
Mr_Sandman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: L.I., NY	Re: Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well? I don't think I would agree that GURPS doesn't do superheroes well. I think it can. I ran a pretty successful supers campaign for a while. Although it to be honest, it wasn't a straight up four-color comic book take on supers. But it requires at least amount the same amount of GM planning, selection of allowed and prohibited traits, and engagement during character creation that other genres require in in GURPS, maybe even a bit more. Part of the problem is that many GMs assume that since it's superheroes, they can let players pick anything in the book. I found GURPS Supers helpful in designing my campaign.