Why doesn't GURPS do Superheroes well?

[Michael Thayne]

You know, it might be good to create a version of Super-Effort that's explicitly limited to being used in ways heroes typically use their strength in the comics, and priced accordingly. Maybe don't do damage logarithmically, instead price it as if it were a bundle of Innate Attack (Melee, ST-Based) and Lifting ST (Super-Effort) or something.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

You know, it might be good to create a version of Super-Effort that's explicitly limited to being used in ways heroes typically use their strength in the comics, and priced accordingly. Maybe don't do damage logarithmically, instead price it as if it were a bundle of Innate Attack (Melee, ST-Based) and Lifting ST (Super-Effort) or something.

I don't see why you'd need that. You can already buy Lifting ST (Super-Effort) and either Striking ST or Innate Attack (ST-Based) and some mix of Damage Resistance and Damage Reduction. And you wouldn't necessarily want to have a fixed combination of those traits at a fixed ratio. Why not just buy each one?

Bill Stoddard

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't see why you'd need that. You can already buy Lifting ST (Super-Effort) and either Striking ST or Innate Attack (ST-Based) and some mix of Damage Resistance and Damage Reduction. And you wouldn't necessarily want to have a fixed combination of those traits at a fixed ratio. Why not just buy each one?

Bill Stoddard

There's an aesthetic element, partly. Why ST (Super-Effort) in the first place? You could also ask why in Supers you didn't just say, "okay, Super-Effort, +400% can apply to Striking ST too" and let players decide on the ration, with ones who want their bundle to include HP play 41-odd points per level for the privilege?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

There's an aesthetic element, partly. Why ST (Super-Effort) in the first place? You could also ask why in Supers you didn't just say, "okay, Super-Effort, +400% can apply to Striking ST too" and let players decide on the ration, with ones who want their bundle to include HP play 41-odd points per level for the privilege?

Erm. Striking ST (Super-Effort, +400%) is in GURPS Supers. Its' called out in the textbox on pg 24. Admittedly, it is only suggested for four-color and ultraviolent campaigns, but it is there.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

You know, it might be good to create a version of Super-Effort that's explicitly limited to being used in ways heroes typically use their strength in the comics, and priced accordingly. Maybe don't do damage logarithmically, instead price it as if it were a bundle of Innate Attack (Melee, ST-Based) and Lifting ST (Super-Effort) or something.

Exponential damage is perfectly realistic for supers -- as long as it's being applied to inanimate objects (including penetrating worn armor). Superheroes seem to have an ability that converts their damage to some other (non-linear) scale when it's being applied to objects, and likewise converts damage from objects to a logarithmic scale when it's being applied to them.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Exponential damage is perfectly realistic for supers -- as long as it's being applied to inanimate objects (including penetrating worn armor). Superheroes seem to have an ability that converts their damage to some other (non-linear) scale when it's being applied to objects, and likewise converts damage from objects to a logarithmic scale when it's being applied to them.

That's an interesting idea. I think I could work with that.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

That's an interesting idea. I think I could work with that.

It's challenging to build mechanics for, though. Something like:

Super-Damage (ST/VH): roll Super-Damage to cause damage to an object. You may do this for any natural attack, including innate attacks (the GM may require a minimum of 1d), and replace the normal damage of that attack. On a success, look up your margin of success on the range/speed chart, and that is your damage. When hitting a character (a character is considered to be anyone who pays points for their hit points and DR), final wounding cannot exceed 10% of hit points x your margin of success.
Super-Lifting (ST/VH): roll Super-Lifting to lift an object. Ordinary objects have a penalty equal to their SM, the GM may give other objects their own resistance. Success allows lifting the object as Extra-Heavy encumbrance; for every 2 points by which you make the roll, reduce effective encumbrance by 1 level.
Super-Resilience (HT/VH): roll Super-Resilience to resist injury. This roll is at a penalty equal to range/speed modifier for the injury being negated; against multiple attacks, roll once for the total, not once per attack. On a success, the attack does not harm you. On a failure, you suffer injury equal to the amount by which you failed, or the original damage, whichever is more.

Those abilities are not balanced against tech (they're insanely overpowered), though for super vs super they just work out to a quick contest and the loser takes damage equal to the amount by which he lost.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Erm. Striking ST (Super-Effort, +400%) is in GURPS Supers. Its' called out in the textbox on pg 24. Admittedly, it is only suggested for four-color and ultraviolent campaigns, but it is there.

Oh, I know. But it's not clear if that's saying, "you can buy Striking ST (Super-Effort, +400%)" so much as "that's what it would cost if you could buy it." In any case, it wasn't strictly necessary to wrap it all up into one modifier and give the HP for free... but Supers does that to simplify things, and maybe because it was decided that buying Striking ST (Super-Effort) without the other things would be unbalanced or not genre-appropriate.

So here's what I'm thinking: Make a new enhancement for ST called "Four-Color, +150%" For purposes of Lifting ST, it acts exactly like Super-Effort. Furthermore, when making an unarmed attack again an inanimate object or superhuman foe, the super can add 1d/level to damage instead of adding Four-Color ST to regular ST.

Game mechanically, this is something like Crushing Attack 1d (ST Based, +100%; (Other Limitations), -X%) [?]; HP +1 [2]; Lifting ST +1 (Super-Effort, +400%) [15]; Striking ST +1 (Alternative Ability of Crushing Attack, x1/5) [1]. It totals to 25 points or so, but rather than worrying about the exact value of the limitations on the Crushing Attack, and rather than writing the whole mess on your character sheet, you just call it ST (Four-Color, +150%) [25/level] and call it a day.