Big Cats & Other Animals

[Shostak]

TFT's treatment of lions, tigers, and, yes, bears makes me wonder if there is a better way to model the attacks of animals like these in and out of HTH. In the case of bears and big cats, the main attack is listed as a claw strike. As nasty as their claws may be, it seems to me that they are more for grabbing hold of prey until they utilize their much deadlier weapon: their bite. Perhaps claw attacks could be usefully nerfed by 1d or maybe -3, and save the higher damage attack for their bite in HTH?

[larsdangly]

This could be fine tuned, for sure. I think the HTH attack for all combatants is intended to be an abstract thing that potentially involves one or more unspecified modes of attack. And big animals are deadly in HTH in the game, as they should be. But I agree that out of HTH they shouldn't be nearly as dangerous. The only problem there is that the barriers to entering HTH are too great for these creatures; some can be easily avoided by an unarmored human, whereas the reality is that if you faced off and fought one of them up close they would definitely try to close with you and probably succeed. So, that argues that you either totally overhaul rules for HTH or you leave them with inflated melee damage scores.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

The only problem there is that the barriers to entering HTH are too great for these creatures; some can be easily avoided by an unarmored human, whereas the reality is that if you faced off and fought one of them up close they would definitely try to close with you and probably succeed.

Or bump up animal MA. Bears should be much faster than their stats allow them to be, for instance.

So, that argues that you either totally overhaul rules for HTH or you leave them with inflated melee damage scores.

If I'm utilizing my modifications to HTH, a low MA beast like a TFT bear could establish a grapple and then use that to initiate HTH.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Shostak

In the case of bears and big cats, the main attack is listed as a claw strike. As nasty as their claws may be, it seems to me that they are more for grabbing hold of prey until they utilize their much deadlier weapon: their bite.

Disclaimer: I am not a biologist. But this is my understanding.

TFT is a world where a pack of wolves will attack a gang of armed men. In our world that's crazy: wolves don't do that. So we have to assume there are some differences from the animals with which we're familiar.

In the case of an Earth lion their main strategy is grab with the claws, get on top, sit on you and close off your windpipe until you die. Which is probably more about trying to avoid injury as efficient killing. They're OK with eating you while you're dying. But they probably wouldn't attack an armed human unless they were desperate.

Bears are built for combat in a way that lions aren't and a bear's claws are lethal weapons in a way a lion's aren't. So in melee terms TFT probably handles bears better than lions.

Perhaps the chance of getting into HTH should be affected by relative size?

[Terquem]

"The ones who made this world brought lions, tigers, and bears of every kind to populate the wild because they understood the need for a diverse ecological portrait, but they also brought some types of these creatures that are not unaware of the role they fulfill here."

Endrika Morlan, Professor of Environmental Studies, The College of West Oltham upon Yald

[larsdangly]

So there is a table ruling I use that lies somewhere between an interpretation of RAW and a house rule: Anything that you cannot force to stick in place through engagement is allowed to freely enter your hex, including initiating HTH. Thus, unless you have two or more people engaging them, 2-hex critters can freely move onto you, making them much scarier to face alone. The end result feels pretty plausible (I won't say realistic as I've never fought a tiger or whatever). And I think it is a rational combination of things we see in RAW regarding engagement, facing and entering HTH. So, while there are no places in the rules that explicitly lay this out, I consider it more like an interpolation among established rules than a fresh house rule.

[hcobb]

I allow rats, men, slimes, giants, and dragons to attempt to enter any hex they like.

The current occupants of that hex then decide how they want to respond to this invasion of the personal space.

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#HTH

[Skarg]

If bears are two-hex creatures (which many probably are if they aren't standing up) then they can do a Push during movement, requiring the victim to make a DX roll or fall... but unfortunately, it also means if the victim makes it, they can stand up in an adjacent hex, AND the "rolling out from under" rule ALSO means that even if someone does fall, they get a DX roll to do the same thing during the Action phase. Which makes people getting pushed in trouble if they have low DX, but pushing a high-DX foe tends to backfire.

Bears probably should have higher MA than humanoids (probably at least MA 16), which would let them initiate HTH as an action.

I would also say that bears, cats and canines should also probably be able to stand up more quickly than humanoids, and/or they don't need to "fall down" to engage in HTH attacks.

[timm meyers]

wow I think the idea of giving wild animals various levels of U.C. is BRILLIENT! Basically you equate "claws" as per level of U.C.
Remove all damage dice and just go by bare hand ST chart with claw I, II, or III Which is equal to U.C. I, II, or III (even IV or V if you want bigger than bear claw mutant sabre lions...)

You no longer need fur armor (which I personally think is visually silly) as the U.C. always on Evade grants -DX defense and far more reflective of a quick agile wolf, cat, or even bear.
Change the Kick to a HtH only "throat bite or belly rip" attack still keeping all adjustments.
Yes! shield rush yes! of course it titles "pounce or rush" instead of throw

Common Wolf ST-10 DX-14 with Claws I = does reg. snapping attack 1d-2, HtH throat bite(-4DX kick but +4DX HtH = 0 change) 1d damage

Timber Wolf ST-10 DX-14 with Claws II = reg. attack 1d-1, HtH throat bite (-2DX but +4DX HtH = +2DX) 1d+2 Plus they are -1DX to hit from front and deflect 1 hit, and can "Rush" for knockdown

Dire wolf ST-10 DX-14 with Claws III =reg. attack 1d, HtH throat bite (-1DX but +4DX = +3DX) 2d !!!! Plus -2DX to hit and deflect 2hits (not liking the armor aspect so much but...) and their "Rush" attack is a 4d6 defense roll to fall or not

A pack of 10 Strength timber wolves with an alpha dire wolf would be so much more potent and fun this way I think.

Tiger - ST-24 DX-14 with Claw II? = reg. attack 1d+4 (is that a 2d6+1?), HtH throat rip is +3DX at 1d+7! (or 3d+1) yikes

OK maybe claws this way might be a bit too scary come the large ST animals but probably far more true to life. Hmmmm?

[Shostak]

Do you let animals pin, too, so that those that hunt in packs can work cooperatively to first render human foes helpless and then slaughter them?