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Old 08-21-2023, 10:05 AM   #1
Bathawk
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default More gun advice: The Calico M-950

Hey I had such great conversation on asking for info on the Wildey .45 magnum, thought I would ask about another unique weapon (keep running into weird ones like these)

This time it's the Calico M-950

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico_M950

Any idea on what the stats it would have? or if an existing statline approximates it?
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Old 08-21-2023, 10:13 AM   #2
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: More gun advice: The Calico M-950

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Originally Posted by Bathawk View Post
H
This time it's the Calico M-950

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico_M950

Any idea on what the stats it would have? or if an existing statline approximates it?
As a 9mm weapon with a 6 inch barrel it's probably at 2D+2. I think you'd need c. 10 inches to go to the next higher damage level. Otherwise it's just a machine pistol with a 100 round magazine.
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Old 08-21-2023, 10:17 AM   #3
King Leonidas
 
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Default Re: More gun advice: The Calico M-950

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
As a 9mm weapon with a 6 inch barrel it's probably at 2D+2. I think you'd need c. 10 inches to go to the next higher damage level. Otherwise it's just a machine pistol with a 100 round magazine.
he could also feed it with spicier ammo and the longer barrel will make more use of it
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Old 08-21-2023, 10:39 AM   #4
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: More gun advice: The Calico M-950

It should mostly have standard 9mm stats - 2d+2 pi, Acc 2, Range 150/1850, RoF 3, Rcl 2. It's markedly heavier, being 2.25 lb empty and has loaded weight of either 4 lb (50 rounds) or 5.8 lb (100 rounds), as opposed to the 9mm Auto Pistol in Characters with its 2.4 lb loaded weight, which may call for increased ST; I'd probably call it ST 10. That big magazine on the top looks like it makes the weapon markedly more bulky, so it might be Bulk -3 instead of Bulk -2. Reloads weigh in at 1.75 lb (50 rounds) or 3.5 lb (100 rounds). I think Shots is either 50+1 or 100+1 (but may just be 50 or 100, not sure if you can keep one in the chamber like you can with most magazine-fed firearms); reloading looks like it would probably take longer than with a standard magazine, so maybe (5)? LC 3, but with caveats in some modern settings (it certainly counts as having a high-capacity magazine).

That's for the M-950. The M-960A would probably be identical, but RoF 12 and LC 2. EDIT: Just looked closer at the Wikipedia entry, and it has a retractable stock and a foregrip. That's going to boost the weight a bit, and give the option of +1 to Acc for -1 to Bulk (from the retractable stock); with the stock in use it's going to be a two-handed weapon, probably with ST 9†.
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Last edited by Varyon; 08-21-2023 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 08-21-2023, 10:59 AM   #5
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: More gun advice: The Calico M-950

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
That big magazine on the top looks like it makes the weapon markedly more bulky, so it might be Bulk -3 instead of Bulk -2.
That sounds reasonable but I find the implementation of Bulk to be weird and irregular. Sometimes Bulk is "bulk" as in plain English like with the Desert Eagle and sometimes it seems to be nothing but barrel length as when you reduce Bulk by just chopping a few inches off a full-sized rifle.

I'd nominate Bulk as the 4e equivalent of 3e's "Snap Shot" i.e. a fiddly stat that should be done away with. In particular because late 3e books had a Holdout mod stat that was much more useful. Using bulk to replace Holdpout Penalty is a thing that works particularly badly. Make firing while moving a uniform penalty..
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Old 08-21-2023, 11:09 AM   #6
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: More gun advice: The Calico M-950

If the photo on Wikipedia and their archived site is really the M-950, then it seems like the action is moved forward compared a regular handgun, probably for reasons to do with their special helical magazine. Counting the magazine sticking out the back, the overall length seems 2" to 4" longer than I would expect in a conventional handgun with a 6" barrel. The M-950 has enough room for a foregrip with only a 6" barrel, and it comes with a sling. So a Bulk penalty would probably be reasonable, they seem to envision it being used like a small SMG. Perhaps the same Bulk as the Mini-Uzi in GURPS High-Tech?
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Last edited by Polydamas; 08-21-2023 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 08-21-2023, 11:38 AM   #7
Varyon
 
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Default Re: More gun advice: The Calico M-950

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
That sounds reasonable but I find the implementation of Bulk to be weird and irregular. Sometimes Bulk is "bulk" as in plain English like with the Desert Eagle and sometimes it seems to be nothing but barrel length as when you reduce Bulk by just chopping a few inches off a full-sized rifle.

I'd nominate Bulk as the 4e equivalent of 3e's "Snap Shot" i.e. a fiddly stat that should be done away with. In particular because late 3e books had a Holdout mod stat that was much more useful. Using bulk to replace Holdpout Penalty is a thing that works particularly badly. Make firing while moving a uniform penalty..
Bulk is something that seems to be assigned purely on a relative basis. Something that's notably but not extremely bulkier than weapons defined as Bulk -2 gets Bulk -3. Reducing barrel length makes the weapon a bit more wieldy in close combat and when firing on the move, so that gives a +1 to Bulk, maybe +2 if you're cutting off a lot of barrel from a longarm. I can see reason to just have a Holdout penalty and then make close-quarters combat and firing on the move have a uniform penalty, but that sort of defeats the entire purpose of using shorter firearms if there's no drawback to a longer one outside of concealment (which isn't a factor in a lot of campaigns/settings). Just having some concrete rules for determining Bulk would be great; I know for the gun design rules I made (and really need to update) for DF, I simply decided on a barrel length for Bulk -2, following SSR to determine the rest (I think Bulk -2 was for either 0.15; going with that, -3 would be 0.2 yards, -4 would be 0.3 yards, -5 would be 0.5 yards, -7 would be 1 yard, etc; note these correspond to 5.4", 7.2", 10.8", 18", and 36", respectively); a stock resulted in a further -1 and bulky bits like primitive revolver cylinders, the Calico's magazine, etc could result in a further -1 - basically, if you're at or near the maximum size barrel for your bulk category, having fiddly bits is -1 to Bulk, but if you're closer to the minimum size, those fiddly bits aren't enough to boost you up another level; you can think of it as the fiddly bits giving -0.5 Bulk. For the Desert Eagle to match HT's Bulk -4, we'd have to decide "ridiculous caliber" counts as a "fiddly bit", as by barrel length a typical Deagle would be Bulk -3 (for 6" barrel; the longer 10" variant would match Bulk -4 on its own).
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Old 08-21-2023, 11:52 AM   #8
DouglasCole
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Default Re: More gun advice: The Calico M-950

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bathawk View Post
Hey I had such great conversation on asking for info on the Wildey .45 magnum, thought I would ask about another unique weapon (keep running into weird ones like these)

This time it's the Calico M-950

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico_M950

Any idea on what the stats it would have? or if an existing statline approximates it?
This might help: https://gamingballistic.com/2016/01/...9mm-parabellu/
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Old 08-21-2023, 04:08 PM   #9
Rupert
 
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Default Re: More gun advice: The Calico M-950

Apparently they are very accurate, so Acc 3 as a pistol and Acc 4 in carbine form might be justified. On the other hand, even target pistols in HT do not, so perhaps not, and only long-barrelled carbines get a bonus.

They're also known for being unreliable, with feed problems, though that could be from careless loading. Perhaps lowered Malf for unfamiliar users would be appropriate.
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Old 08-21-2023, 08:52 PM   #10
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: More gun advice: The Calico M-950

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Originally Posted by Bathawk View Post
This time it's the Calico M-950
The fact that it's in 9x19mm Parabellum makes it easy to stat up. There are loads of guns already in the game with that load and similar barrel length.

Despite the fact that it calls itself a pistol, I believe it's actually a machine pistol or SMG.

Use stats for the IMI Uzi from High Tech and you won't be far off. The only things that would change are number of shots and possibly RoF. If Weight changes significantly that might slightly alter Rcl and ST stats.
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