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Old 03-25-2023, 09:56 AM   #1
Shostak
 
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Default Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

At IQ 14, this Thrown spell offers players a powerful and nigh indispensable tool allowing a wizard to do much more than just turn frogs back into princes. Remove Thrown Spell can nullify defensive spells like Avert, Blur, Reverse Missile, and Stone Flesh; utility spells like Dark Vision, Flight, Glamor, Lock, Speed Movement, and Weapon & Armor Enchantment; and offensive spells like Clumsiness, Curse, Freeze, Slippery Floor, and Staff to Snake. It has limits, though; it has no effect on Spell Shield, and, being a Thrown spell itself, it can't be cast reliably at range without buffing up DX with Aid first. And it won't be of much use in battles against foes that don't cast spells or use enchanted weapons.

Any wizard specializing in meta-magic or abnegation should certainly consider this learning spell. Remove Thrown Spell allows priestly/wise woman types to remove curses, and, if the GM has spells that cause paralysis, blindness, deafness, sickness, etc., it would almost certainly be effective against them, too. Enchanting Remove Thrown Spell into a missile weapon could be a great way to give it greater range, though the wording on ITL 155 suggest that this would not work against Turn/Reverse/Dispel Missiles.

In my experience, Remove Thrown Spell is often overlooked by beginning players. But put a Curse on a character or turn their friend into a newt and they quickly learn the value of the spell.

Conversation starters:
  • How often do you select Remove Thrown Spell for your PCs and NPCs?
  • How have you used it in combat situations?
  • How have you used it in less tactical situations?
  • If you've ever been in a situation in which you rued the fact that you didn't equip your character with this spell, tell us about it!
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Old 03-25-2023, 03:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

I think, and understandably so, most people are concerned about attack more than defense at first.

As you mentioned, I agree that most spells that are thrown are tough to justify since they suffer dramatically from the thrown range modifiers. At least people with thrown weapons can get a +2. Why not a little love for the spellcaster in this way?
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Old 03-25-2023, 03:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

  1. Untoading requires Dissolve Enchantment (ITL 33).
  2. RTS is useful against Basilisks.
  3. Note that the really powerful spells (that also ignore Thrown spell range modifiers) are the Special spells which RTS does nothing against for the most part.
  4. A Molly really ought to take RTS once she reaches IQ 19 and has the mana to power it. (So that she can anti-Freeze herself of course.)
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Old 03-25-2023, 03:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty View Post
Why not a little love for the spellcaster in this way?
I rule that touching the subject with the caster's own body or staff negates the range penalty for Thrown spells (and that full Maul staves can reach this far to touch if not thump).
This isn't a big advantage in combat because the caster must make a separate to-hit roll to touch a non-cooperating target.
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Old 03-25-2023, 05:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
[LIST=1][*]Untoading requires Dissolve Enchantment (ITL 33).
Given that the descriptions of Remove Thrown Spell and Shapeshifting do not agree, one can't say with any more authority that the latter requires Dissolve Enchantment than that Remove Thrown Spell suffices.
Quote:
[*]RTS is useful against Basilisks.
Sure is!
Quote:
[*]Note that the really powerful spells (that also ignore Thrown spell range modifiers) are the Special spells which RTS does nothing against for the most part.
Hence the name!
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Old 03-25-2023, 08:35 PM   #6
timm meyers
 
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

Lizardman uprising starts sacking frontier towns and eventually is conglomerating about a week's travel distance outside the main city.

"Hey dysfunctional ruler type people we got a great plan. Get some wizards to glamour us as lizardmen and we will go out and capture some of them for interrogation." says the party.
"Hmmm, OK" says the bureaucratic idiots that have failed to do anything so far to stem the tide of scaled death. POOF 5 Glamoured lizardmen.

You might guess what happened when they successfully returned, approaching the outskirts of the city and realized they had no RTS.....

They did eventually rescue themselves from the arena prison, where they were deposited upon capture by the city's military patrols, all before they were to be used in "Death to the lizards" combat games scheduled as distractions for the growing unhappy citizens and refugees.
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Old 03-26-2023, 01:30 AM   #7
David Bofinger
 
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

RTS is a critical spell for when you've been cursed. But how often do you get cursed? And when you are, do you urgently need to be decursed, or can you go to the wizard's guild in the next town and get the problem fixed there? It depends, but IMX mostly the latter.

The problem with RTS to debuff enemies in combat is, of course, range. And in many campaigns it's not common to encounter enemy wizards.

The problem with RTS to decurse friends in combat is that the spell you cast is IQ 14, 2 ST and the spell you counter is quite likely to be lower in IQ and you're saving the enemy wizard his maintenance cost. From an economic standpoint it's questionable.

RTS should be on your list of spells to buy once your wizard's chest is booted up. Along with... everything else. But is it worth a precious spell point? I'd say most of the time it isn't.
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Old 03-26-2023, 06:53 AM   #8
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

Does RTS help against Word Of Command Freeze?
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Old 03-26-2023, 10:43 AM   #9
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
RTS is a critical spell for when you've been cursed. But how often do you get cursed? And when you are, do you urgently need to be decursed, or can you go to the wizard's guild in the next town and get the problem fixed there? It depends, but IMX mostly the latter.
Of course, that all depends on the specifics of the given adventure, but it could absolutely be urgent.
Quote:
The problem with RTS to debuff enemies in combat is, of course, range. And in many campaigns it's not common to encounter enemy wizards.
The Thrown range penalty applies to all other Thrown spells that would be used in a tactical situation, so this isn't so much criticism of Remove Thrown Spell as it is of Thrown spells in general.

Quote:
The problem with RTS to decurse friends in combat is that the spell you cast is IQ 14, 2 ST and the spell you counter is quite likely to be lower in IQ and you're saving the enemy wizard his maintenance cost. From an economic standpoint it's questionable.
The following is a partial list of Thrown spells have a lower IQ requisite than Remove Thrown Spell. In nearly every case, the character nullifying any one of them with Remove Thrown Spell will spend no more than the ST required to cast the spell being removed.

Spell Casting/Maintenance Cost
Freeze 4
Avert 2+1
Dark Vision 3
Turn Missile 1+1
Dispel Missiles 1+1
Lock 2
Shock Shield 2+1
Speed Movement 2
Control Animal 2+1
Persuasiveness 2+1/minute
Conceal 2/4/8/16/32
Reverse Missile 2+1
Eyes Behind 3+1
Invisibility 3+1
Control Person 3+1
Mage Sight 2
Slippery Floor 3
Sticky Floor 3
Stone Flesh 2+1
Stop 3
Telekinesis 2+2

Quote:
RTS should be on your list of spells to buy once your wizard's chest is booted up. Along with... everything else. But is it worth a precious spell point? I'd say most of the time it isn't.
If that's your plan, you'd best hope that nothing happens to that precious wizard's chest while you are out adventuring.
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Old 03-26-2023, 10:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: Talent/Spell of the Week: Remove Thrown Spell

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Does RTS help against Word Of Command Freeze?
Word of Command is a Special spell, so Remove Thrown Spell would be useless against it.
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