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Old 06-26-2022, 05:41 AM   #1
Racer
 
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Default Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

Okay asking for a younger UK player who has minimal knowledge of firearms .

We're talking about a realistic & powerful handgun that'll give someone in body armour , a Werewolf (or similar)
trouble or would slow down a Predator . He's already designed a Shock Stick/Sword that's pretty powerful .

The player has only just started as a GM , has Basic book , Hi-Tech , old Black Ops & old Horror book . Various books are available to him but aren't really relevant - Uplift , Ice Age , both Discworld books & old Rome one . Thought he had Wild West but can't locate it .

I've chucked a couple of ideas his way , but as a Brit it's not really my field of expertise . Plus current revolution in materials , manufacturing & new techs opening up , it's hard to even be speculative on what will be available . I mean look at mobile phones/cell phones from 16 years ago compared to today !

Use of Titanium , carbon-carbon layered with graphine 3-D printed or carbon nanotubes reinforced plastic materials ; non metallic bullet casings ; sealed ejection systems to prevent operation foulings ; being to fire under water or in near vacuum etc .

I'm not sure barring some sort of rocket type fuel that any current or proposed propellents will be able to function outside a oxygenated atmosphere ?

So anything that could inspire him will be welcome .

( I've not handled anything apart from air rifles since 1990 & there are so many types & options , it's easy to get confused . Had a female friend think a Glock was a type of gun rather than a manufacturer the other day while we were watching an action film ...)
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Old 06-26-2022, 07:16 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

"powerful"
HTp102 50AE Eagle; p120 Barret rifle.
Same pages have pistol & compact rifles with high capacity and armour piercing rounds.
Page 124, MP7 smg, 4d dam? Use armour piercing rounds.
Maybe by 2030 we'll have liquid propellent firearms - use one of the High-Tech firearms, increase price x5, add +2 per die of damage. The magazine includes the liquid fuel.
Eg H&K XMP 9A1, 4.6x30mm 6d+3(2) pi- 4 270/3,000 4.4/0.5 15 20+1(3) 7† -3* 2 $7,500/$130 LC1. Latest experimental liquid fueled smg based on the MP7, only available to a select test group.
PS firearms fire in vacuum & underwater - Oxygen is in the fuel. Vacuum isn't good for the firearm. Water stops bullets fast. I'll let the experts handle the details.
PPS IMHO the female was correct - Glock is a type of pistol. There are a number of variants by size, capacity, calibre. Glock also make knives & shovels. I doubt they made the stress ball I had. I want a Glock 22 but it'll have to wait until I win the Lotto.
Ppps I used to think bullets were lead. I love this forum.
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Last edited by jacobmuller; 06-26-2022 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 06-26-2022, 07:25 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post

Use of Titanium , carbon-carbon layered with graphine 3-D printed or carbon nanotubes reinforced plastic materials ; non metallic bullet casings ; sealed ejection systems to prevent operation foulings ; being to fire under water or in near vacuum etc .
Being able to fire underwater or in a complete vacuum is already the case.
Bullets have their own oxidizer and do not need air to fire. Environment could mess with the action to cycle the next bullet but that could be dealt with for special purpose guns. The mass of water slows down bullets a lot though, especially supersonic bullets so firing underwater will always be very short range.
3-D printing is only useful for letting someone make their own, outside a factory. Most of the rest of your list only reduces weight but that can increase recoil so has its own penalty.
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Old 06-26-2022, 07:29 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
The player has only just started as a GM , has Basic book , Hi-Tech , old Black Ops & old Horror book . Various books are available to him but aren't really relevant - Uplift , Ice Age , both Discworld books & old Rome one . Thought he had Wild West but can't locate it .
Might want to add Tactical Shooting or GunFu for a gun heavy campaign. Not so much for new rules as the extra detail and focus on handling them.
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Old 06-26-2022, 07:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

You could get UT and start reading from p 135, it's where the TL9 guns are.
It has options for ETC and Liquid propellants and quite a lot of different ammo types. It can actually be overkill.
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Being able to fire underwater or in a complete vacuum is already the case.
Bullets have their own oxidizer and do not need air to fire. Environment could mess with the action to cycle the next bullet but that could be dealt with for special purpose guns. The mass of water slows down bullets a lot though, especially supersonic bullets so firing underwater will always be very short range.
3-D printing is only useful for letting someone make their own, outside a factory. Most of the rest of your list only reduces weight but that can increase recoil so has its own penalty.
Was actually talking about industrial 3-D printing of components . Airbus for example reduced the weight of some components by 57% or more in weight by using metal printing process .

I take it only more modern bullets can be fired in a near vacuum ? I can recall it being mentioned somewhere on TV Tropes that a early 20th Century pistol could not be fired on surface of the Moon . It was a while back & I might be off on the details .

I do not which edition of Hi Tech he has , as he mentioned none of those weapons posted by jacobmuller .

Anyway thanks guys & I'll pass a link onto my friend - he should find all this stuff incredibly helpful ! :-D
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

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I take it only more modern bullets can be fired in a near vacuum ?
Even black powder carries its own oxidizer -- the potassium nitrate in the classic formula. Atmospheric oxygen isn't sufficient because there's no good way to get any quantity of air to the propellant during the short duration of the explosion, especially considering that the fuel is all wrapped up in a gun barrel and then a cartridge. Not that the former is air tight, but it's certainly highly restricted airflow.

Problems with space and vacuum are usually the lubricants and the mechanism. An Earth-normal gun might not work well on the surface of the moon if its lubricants dry out, freeze, or metal surfaces cold-weld to each other.

Better materials alone would allow higher damage due to higher chamber pressures from the cartridges. (More of the same propellant would do; modern cartridges aren't usually packed full anyway.) You could also take a look at the fancier ammo types in HT and maybe borrow one from UT if you want it to seem more SFNAL.

Last edited by Anaraxes; 06-26-2022 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 06-26-2022, 09:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
.

I take it only more modern bullets can be fired in a near vacuum ? I can recall it being mentioned somewhere on TV Tropes that a early 20th Century pistol could not be fired on surface of the Moon .D
A significant nuymber of people might have believed that but that's what would have made it a trope rather than making it accurate.

Gunpowder will work in a complete vacuum. The Mythbusters built a vacuum chamber and fired a .357 Magnum in it. It worked fine. If you wonder, while the Magnum was first sold in 1935 it was based on a design from the 1890s.

The oxygen is _in_ the gunpowder and it always has been. This is true even for black powder. That's what the saltpeter is for.

Lots of people have fired guns under water.. Many semi-automatic weapons will only fire once but not reload themselves because of how the mass of the water affects them. You could get around this by using revolvers but the bullets don't work either. Water is one thousand times denser than air. Dividing range by 1000 is a simple way to represent this.

Go back and watch the 2nd Lara Croft movie. In the early underwater scense Lara has an actual functional weapon used by German forces. The bad guys have a different one that's Russian.

If i was to forecast a development for future handguns in the next 10 years it's going to be for higher chamber pressures producing higher velocities and/or smaller bullets that maintain effectiveness because of higher velocity.
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:03 AM   #9
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Default Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

Maybe he has the 3e High Tech - I don't even have the pdf of it so can't suggest items there.
You can buy the 4e pdf of High Tech Weapons Tables from W23 - not as good as the whole book but it's the whole book's worth of bang. Edit: $4 for just the 4e tables.
Maybe someone who has 3e will pop in with suggestions.
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Old 06-26-2022, 12:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ideas:'Revolutionary' late 2030s Handgun for Black Ops/Horror/lite Sci-Fi setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
Maybe he has the 3e High Tech - I don't even have the pdf of it so can't suggest items there.
You can buy the 4e pdf of High Tech Weapons Tables from W23 - not as good as the whole book but it's the whole book's worth of bang. Edit: $4 for just the 4e tables.
Maybe someone who has 3e will pop in with suggestions.
The problems are 1) that handguns are already mainly limited by the user (in particular how well a human can aim them and keep them on target, what force a human hand can control, and how much bulk and weight is convenient to carry- although tolerance for noise is also an issue). And 2) that piercing body armour and inflicting lots of damage to flesh tend to be incompatible goals. A character with supernatural strength might be able to control a special cartridge more powerful than today's mass-produced handgun cartridges.

There may well now be, and could be in the 2030s, handgun cartridges which make similar design choices to the personal defense weapon cartridges in GURPS High-Tech (in GURPS terms, maximizing penetration at the expense of wounding).
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