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Old 05-05-2020, 06:47 PM   #11
Anthony
 
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

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Originally Posted by CeeDub View Post
So far, there is a lot the human brain can do that software simply can't do even remotely as well. That might change, or it might not.
Broadly speaking, if you can't emulate what a brain does, you can't interface with it either, so either the brain in a box is useless because you can do the same thing in a different way, or it's useless because you can't actually do anything with it.
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Old 05-05-2020, 07:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

Mind emulation is horribly expensive at TL9, requiring a Complexity 9 program for a human mind. At TL9, the cheapest computer that can run it is a Biocomp Macroframe, which costs $2 million (plus $100,000 for the program). At TL10, it becomes much more affordable, with a Biocomp Microframe capable of running one, which costs $20,000 (plus $10,000 for the program).

Of course, this assumes that mind emulations are possible and stable. In my settings, mind emulations are possible but, at TL10, they suffer 1 CP of negative mental traits per week of activity as they destabilize (TL9 versions suffered 1 CP per day). Conversely, at TL10, brains in boxes only suffer 1 CP of negative mental traits per season of activity as they destabilize (TL9 versions suffered 1 CP per two weeks of activity). Of course, insanity is guaranteed for both, but a brain in the box can be transplanted into a new body while a mind emulation can never be really transplanted to an organic body.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

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Good points. What about backwaters where culturing human tissue (or importing it) is illegal?
Other restrictions could be taxes, copyright, exorbitant license fees or choked supply. Think about all the reasons there are blackmarkets for otherwise legally sold items today.

ETA: Other considerations are quality- would you rather have the heart of an Olympic athlete or some artificial sweatshop knockoff?; and concerns about "being natural"- artificial organs are made from GMOs!

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What other ways are there to portray the practice as even more ghoulish than it already is?
Keeping the victim alive to drain bile, marrow and various endocrine secretions from them?
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

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More illegal than serial killing for profit? Because that's what organ legging is. If you're willing to break the law by organ legging, you're willing to break the law by importing/growing artificial organs.
Well, organ legging requires a lot less overhead than a black market artificial organ lab. You can harvest organs with a few hours of surgery in a single sterilized room almost anywhere. A lab capable of producing artificial or cultured organs is going to need a lot of space and power that is going to need to be in place for a much longer period of time, which is going to be much harder to hide from authorities.

The penalties will likely be worse for the organ legger than the black market lab, but that doesnít mean that itís still not in a better spot from a risk/reward analysis.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:20 AM   #15
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

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Well, organ legging requires a lot less overhead than a black market artificial organ lab. You can harvest organs with a few hours of surgery in a single sterilized room almost anywhere. A lab capable of producing artificial or cultured organs is going to need a lot of space and power that is going to need to be in place for a much longer period of time, which is going to be much harder to hide from authorities.

The penalties will likely be worse for the organ legger than the black market lab, but that doesnít mean that itís still not in a better spot from a risk/reward analysis.

And the artificial organ lab is easier for the authorities to find and confiscate.


Simply importing the organs is an option though, and that's more competitive with organ-legging.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:58 AM   #16
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

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Simply importing the organs is an option though, and that's more competitive with organ-legging.
True, though again if supply via smuggling is limited somehow, then customers may not be able to get the organs, sizes or tissue match that they require. Organ-legging looks like it might be more responsive to demand.
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Old 05-06-2020, 08:33 AM   #17
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

Organ legging is possible today at our current TL, yet it seems to be extremely rare (though it does exist) in real life. As grown organs become more viable, I'd expect it to become even more rare to non-existent.

So maybe late TL 8 would be the best TL?
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Old 05-06-2020, 08:34 AM   #18
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

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Originally Posted by Imbicatus View Post
Well, organ legging requires a lot less overhead than a black market artificial organ lab. You can harvest organs with a few hours of surgery in a single sterilized room almost anywhere. A lab capable of producing artificial or cultured organs is going to need a lot of space and power that is going to need to be in place for a much longer period of time, which is going to be much harder to hide from authorities.

The penalties will likely be worse for the organ legger than the black market lab, but that doesnít mean that itís still not in a better spot from a risk/reward analysis.
It's probably easier for most patients to travel to where the organs are.
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Organ legging is possible today at our current TL, yet it seems to be extremely rare (though it does exist) in real life. As grown organs become more viable, I'd expect it to become even more rare to non-existent.

So maybe late TL 8 would be the best TL?
Probably. As I mentioned previoisly, the rewards probably drop quite a bit by TL9 and vanish by TL10.
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: THS / BioTech: Organlegger efficiency

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So far, there is a lot the human brain can do that software simply can't do even remotely as well. That might change, or it might not.
But very, very few of those things are things that we could make an extracted human brain do for us. It's not totally impossible for that to change before figuring out how to solve those problems in software, but it's certainly not the way I would bet.
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Maybe a matured, adult brain with experiences is required. Sure, might take longer to grow and experience can be simulated with feelies, but some shady people might take shortcuts.
What are they doing with the brain that requires experiences, but not cooperation?
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That would raise a lot of questions when friends and family see the body of their missing loved one by chance, or when the government matches the face to a missing persons report.
What face? What body? After you've harvested everything useful from a body, you don't just leave the scraps lying around unless you're operating in a place where there's effectively no risk of investigation.

Stealing only a few organs is still a blatantly obvious crime unless nobody does any kind of autopsy on the murder victim. Might work if you're positioned so that the death isn't considered suspicious at all, otherwise it's totally pointless.
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Good points. What about backwaters where culturing human tissue (or importing it) is illegal?
How do you figure they'd have that rule, but allow transplants at all?
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