Teleporters

[mlangsdorf]

Delving band composition wise, I think having a swashbuckler, martial artist, or thief to act as a melee bodyguard for a scout or other ranged attacker when the attacker is away from the group makes a lot of sense. Not every bunch of delvers has that luxury, but it is definitely subpar tactics for just about any delver to separate themselves from the rest of the group. As was demonstrated by your experience.

Your group has a fast martial artist, so bring him along the next time you go off by yourself to snipe or whatever.

Alternately, spellcasters have a lot of options for summonable bodyguards: the Summon element spells, Create Warrior for illusions, or just conjurable/summonable Allies. Invest points in one of those and you can go off by yourself without needing to convince another player to potentially do nothing for a bit in order to back your scheme. A lot of summonable bodyguards have average or worse Perception, but it's not like a Martial Artist is particularly good at spotting an ambush. You really just want someone/something to provide cover for your back, and even a 125 point minor elemental is sufficient for that.

[Anders]

While that is tactically sound, it runs against what at least in my group is the prevailing "need to hit an enemy every round." Staying back to guard the squishies is boring.

[mlangsdorf]

I understand that, and that's why I suggested using magically conjured allies.

Though when a scout or thief is doing reconnaissance, it's actually giving two PCs something to do for a scene instead of just one if another PC tags along.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Are better group tactics an option? If your group steps into close combat with each other, back to back, then there's no place for teleporters to teleport immediately behind you without having someone else in the way.

That was certainly my first thought when reading this thread! I've run far, far too much hack 'n' slash using GURPS. Players soon learn it's best to have a formation that leaves nobody's back open to anything that isn't either an ally or a solid object with a few hundred DR and HP. I've never required close combat; I've been willing to play teleportation as requiring an empty hex, so if there are no empty hexes between or behind friendlies, teleporters don't go there.

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I know there's a tendency in DFRPG to try to rely on your own character to solve these kinds of problems, but DFRPG is a group game and it often makes more sense to rely on your allies.

Yes. I've typically been able to pull off the ol' "bad guy teleports behind so-and-so and cuts them down" trick once per player group. I don't mean "once per battle," "once per adventure," or "once per type of foe" . . . I mean once. The immediate response is to circle to protect backs, and that becomes a forever tactic for that gaming group and all gaming groups descended from it.

Originally Posted by corwyn

The issue the last time we encountered one, we didn't know it was around

The GM got you fair and square, then! Nobody gave thought to teleporting foes, so teleporting foes had an "I win!" button. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. ;)

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Delving band composition wise, I think having a swashbuckler, martial artist, or thief to act as a melee bodyguard for a scout or other ranged attacker when the attacker is away from the group makes a lot of sense.

Since no dungeon delvers I've ever GM'd have ever suffered a scout or sniper monster to live, I return the favor. Another forever tactic learned very swiftly by gamers is that one sends a scouting party or a sniper team. "Rear security and perimeter defense" is the primary reason for this. This isn't new to the genre . . . the original AD&D Monster Manual was chock-full of monsters whose raison d'être was to pick off stragglers and loners.

I do realize that many gaming groups have that one edgelord "dark stalker" type who has to play Batman, but I don't feel obligated to respect that as a roleplaying choice, because in my opinion, this . . .

"I'm running what amounts to a special-ops game where a well-oiled combat detachment faces dangerous and more numerous foes deep in enemy territory, cut off from supply lines."
"Okay, I play a shady assassin who vaguely orbits the others."

. . . is an issue is at the gaming table, not in the game world. Dungeon-crawl fantasy is fantasy LRRP, not fantasy Batman. Yes, I know: "Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Originally Posted by Anders

While that is tactically sound, it runs against what at least in my group is the prevailing "need to hit an enemy every round." Staying back to guard the squishies is boring.

I'd class that as "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!" I've had a couple of players who thought like that and who broke formation to go coup-counting over the objections of their teammates. When they were inevitably surrounded and beaten to multiple HT rolls to avoid death, their teammates did not prioritize their rescue. They took the stance, "Well, if we're all still alive at the end despite that idiot's move, we'll go see if the idiot is still breathing and heal them." One time, the player of a wizard who could maintain Body of Air for free asked me if they could cast it on the unconscious idiot and use Shape Air to store them in a bottle for the rest of the adventure . . .

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Dungeon-crawl fantasy is fantasy LRRP, not fantasy Batman.

Dungeon crawl fantasy is neither one. Dungeon crawls are fundamentally cinematic, rational people neither design dungeons nor go crawling through them, but the genre isn't superhero.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Dungeon crawl fantasy is neither one. Dungeon crawls are fundamentally cinematic, rational people neither design dungeons nor go crawling through them, but the genre isn't superhero.

My players of 400 pt PCs would say otherwise.