Antarctic Space Nazis Across the Multiverse

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Say point 1 is at the top, and they're numbered clockwise from there.

Point 1 has the airship mooring "mast" - it's really more of a pier, sticking out horizontally from the pillar.

Points 2 and 5 have space for two heavy weapons, with no problems.

Point 3 is cramped by the heated hut with the crane on its top. So you put the lift there, and an MG42 in the lift - requiring the lift to carry a heavy weapon all the time is making the engineering pointlessly hard, and you need to defend the lift against ground attackers.

Point 4 can have a heavy weapon if you want. Its sky arc is a bit cramped by the crane, which is why my original plan had another MG42 there.

The crane needs to have a standard parked position that has the job horizontal and pointing away from the centre of the pillar, to cause the minimum possible interference to weapons.

Thanks.

If I wanted to place a Solothurn S-18/1000 rifle on a flexible mount for a marksman to shoot shantaks or other flying monsters, where should I aim to put it?

Would it have the widest coverage at Point 4, which is at least high up, or on another roof somewhere, maybe only 5-10 meter high?

Maybe Point 4 should just mount a fairly light mount which fits both the Mauser T-Gewehr and the PzB 39, which could be placed there if needed, but are usually kept inside guard quarters.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

If I wanted to place a Solothurn S-18/1000 rifle on a flexible mount for a marksman to shoot shantaks or other flying monsters, where should I aim to put it?

Would it have the widest coverage at Point 4, which is at least high up, or on another roof somewhere, maybe only 5-10 meter high?

Shooting at flying things without autofire is hard work. It works for things coming straight at you, not dodging much, and for things that fly slowly and aren't changing altitude. If that matches your shantaks, this makes sense.

Flyers with any sense will tend to avoid the heavy weapons on the pillar, so putting the Solothurn a few hundred metres away on the tallest thing in its immediate area seems like the best idea.

Maybe Point 4 should just mount a fairly light mount which fits both the Mauser T-Gewehr and the PzB 39, which could be placed there if needed, but are usually kept inside guard quarters.

I think that's better.

Let me try to describe the rooftop weapon shelter I imagine them using. I'm sure I've seen these somewhere, but I can't find a picture. Start by imagining a rectangular wooden shed, surrounding the weapon and enclosing it completely. Now cut it into two halves vertically, through the middle. Put hinges between the ground and the two walls that don't have the cut running through them. The two halves of the shed open up, moving on those hinges and swinging down to the ground. Your gun now has open sky above it, and when its crew have finished firing it, they just hinge the two halves of the shed back up, and it is enclosed again. Of course, you want an overlap and sealing on the cut through the shed, so that it isn't horribly drafty, and lots of insulation on the inside. Does that make sense?

[johndallman]

I though it worth looking up the performance of explosives at low temperatures. TNT seems to be fine down to liquid nitrogen temperatures and ordinary smokeless powders should still work down to at least -50°C. although they lose some power - about 7% of pressure at -50.

More generally, there's lots of fun stuff to be found with a Google search for "site:dtic.mil low temperature"

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I though it worth looking up the performance of explosives at low temperatures. TNT seems to be fine down to liquid nitrogen temperatures and ordinary smokeless powders should still work down to at least -50°C. although they lose some power - about 7% of pressure at -50.

More generally, there's lots of fun stuff to be found with a Google search for "site:dtic.mil low temperature"

Huh.

The PCs are enveloped in a warming spell that probably makes their equipment warm enough, but their Spanish sky pirate allies are using black powder weapons. Granted, the sky pirates were freezing even clad in enough wool and furs for medium encumbrance in just -30° C a few hours away, they'll probably be hard pressed to even survive -92° C, let alone fire their weapons.

Ignoring any possible magical effects, if it's around -80° C on the surface in Kadath some distance away from the pillar, what kind of temperatures ought there be in tunnels below the surface? Assuming there are any heat sources, even if only ghoul and nightgaunt body heat, it has to be somewhat warmer, right?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Granted, the sky pirates were freezing even clad in enough wool and furs for medium encumbrance in just -30° C a few hours away, they'll probably be hard pressed to even survive -92° C, let alone fire their weapons.

They're going to get badly frostbitten before they get into air that cold. Those temperatures really are brutal.

Ignoring any possible magical effects, if it's around -80° C on the surface in Kadath some distance away from the pillar, what kind of temperatures ought there be in tunnels below the surface? Assuming there are any heat sources, even if only ghoul and nightgaunt body heat, it has to be somewhat warmer, right?

Ice is a fairly reasonable conductor of heat, about the same as soil or stone.

A few "living" creatures won't add significant heat to the tunnels. Looking at the calculations for permafrost, Kadath has been frozen for at least a million years, correct? If so, the natural permafrost depth would be about 700 metres, and that would be the depth at which geothermal heat raises the temperature to freezing point. Since thermal conduction is essentially linear, that would mean you'd gain about 1°C for each (700/80) metres of depth, which is about each 9 metres of depth. So 36 metres down, the temperature would have risen from -80°C to about -76°C, which doesn't make a huge difference.

There seems to be something in or below the pillar absorbing heat, yes? That's likely to make it colder with depth, at least within a few hundred metres of the pillar.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

They're going to get badly frostbitten before they get into air that cold. Those temperatures really are brutal.

Most of the sky pirates are below decks on the Rocinante, in the process of trying to conserve what warmth they can around a couple of magical braziers. The watch-stander on deck is covered with an alchemical substance made mostly from the blubber of an esoteric Dreamlands whale species and also wrapped in about fifty pounds of TL4 cold weather gear. It doesn't seem to be helping, not now the Rocinante is approaching Kadath, which means they are at over ten thousand feet above sea level and nearing the coldest spot in the Dreamlands.

To be sure, 'Nonc' Morel will probably be glad to display his awesome druid powers in the Dreamlands, where his RPM rituals at roughly a relative +8 compared to the mundane Earth he's used to. I'm guessing that his first act in the next session will be to make the Rocinante wark and toasty and envelop every pirate in a long-lasting effect that gives him Temperature Tolerance (Cold) of as many levels as are needed.

Originally Posted by johndallman

Ice is a fairly reasonable conductor of heat, about the same as soil or stone.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by johndallman

A few "living" creatures won't add significant heat to the tunnels.

Somewhere below the surface, there are entire neighbourhoods of Kadath covered with ice and linked with tunnels, occupied by thousands of ghouls. God only knows what they eat, maybe they walk between worlds enough to be able to hunt Elsewhere as well, maybe they are cursed to remain alive despite huunger, growing ever more insane.

And there might well be ancient generators of Kadath that still function and warm some of the structures, stimulating growth of various fungi or even keeping life support systems going. For that matter, anywhere that is not too close to the gate pillar, there might be a subterranean ecosystem down there, albeit one where there are entirely too many hungry ghouls for comfort.

Originally Posted by johndallman

Looking at the calculations for permafrost, Kadath has been frozen for at least a million years, correct?

What's time in the Dreamlands, really?

But yeah. Anywhere from a million years to two hundred million years, the evidence is inconsistent. Or, you know, since last night, the ASNs had been there for more than half a year and the ice over this part of Kadath had been frozen millions of years.

Originally Posted by johndallman

If so, the natural permafrost depth would be about 700 metres, and that would be the depth at which geothermal heat raises the temperature to freezing point. Since thermal conduction is essentially linear, that would mean you'd gain about 1°C for each (700/80) metres of depth, which is about each 9 metres of depth. So 36 metres down, the temperature would have risen from -80°C to about -76°C, which doesn't make a huge difference.

Well, there's tunnels at depths up to a couuple of kilometers. And the ice, where it's thickest, is more than that.

Originally Posted by johndallman

There seems to be something in or below the pillar absorbing heat, yes? That's likely to make it colder with depth, at least within a few hundred metres of the pillar.

There is, yes. Within about 200 meters of the pillar base, going deeper makes it colder. No one sane wants to head down that way. The ASNs have strict orders not to go down any chutes or steep pathways that lead down through the ice to the base of the gate pillar. The only one who might ever go down there would be PCs, 'cause that be how PC roll, all looking for the Monster at the End of the Dream.

The ghouls that the ASNs are worried about are not coming from straight below them. They probably live some kilometers away and are simply moving through the maze of tunnels in order to try to find a lightly defended route to the lovely warm flesh of humans, Nazi or not.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Well, there's tunnels at depths up to a couuple of kilometers. And the ice, where it's thickest, is more than that.

2000 metres of ice is roughly 200 atmospheres of pressure. That isn't enough to change the melting point of ice, but it's enough that those tunnels should close up quickly. It's just another of the things that ASN scientists have to not worry about.

Permafrost depth is measured in soil and rock, below the ice, if I've understood correctly, so it's about 2700 metres down, and the ice tunnels get about 1°C warmer for every 34 metres of depth.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

2000 metres of ice is roughly 200 atmospheres of pressure. That isn't enough to change the melting point of ice, but it's enough that those tunnels should close up quickly. It's just another of the things that ASN scientists have to not worry about.

Well, the PCs don't know about any ASN base there, but they do have a theory that the place they are headed to in the Dreamlands will be analoguous to Vostok Station and Lake Vostok in Antarctica. After all, the Man With the Unfortunate Look, the sorcerer/cultist who kidnapped Alice Talbot (PC) and was the partner of Ms. Delvano, in whose dreams the PCs are, that man was a research assistant at Vostok Station when the Russians finally breached the ice and collected samples from Lake Vostok for the first time in millions of years.

Having seen a movie or two, as well as watched the X-Files, the players are pretty convinced that the Russians found Something in Lake Vostok and the gate that has opened into the mind of Ms. Delvano (and hence her dreams and the Dreamlands that the PCs visit) is some kind of dream echo of what lies in the real Lake Vostok, below Earth's Antarctica.

Originally Posted by johndallman

Permafrost depth is measured in soil and rock, below the ice, if I've understood correctly, so it's about 2700 metres down, and the ice tunnels get about 1°C warmer for every 34 metres of depth.

The actual Lake Vostok is under about four kilometers of ice and the pressure is enough so that at a depth of about 500 meters below sea level, the subglacial lake is liquid.

It might well be that the stygian depths below Kadath reach this far down, though, of course, nothing could survive the pressures down there without advanced technology or powerful magic.

[Varyon]

While I realize it's not going to make any difference over in Kadath, would the Cold Ones be amenable to being used for refrigeration? It seems this would be a win-win situation - the Nazis can keep their foodstuffs cold without wasting precious energy, the Cold Ones get to absorb the heat within the cooler. Or would you have to be crazy (errr... crazier, ASN's may well not have a lot of sanity to start with I suppose) to eat something that's been chilled by such beings?

[Polydamas]

And did you manage to divert your players from charging straight into the FlAK in conditions which will kill their comrades, and therefore bringing out a TPK before the full horror of their situation sinks in?