Iconic Forgotten Realms Spells - As Powers and/or New Skill-based Spells

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

I don't like building advantages, but that's probably the best way for some spells including the Summon Monster ones you presented. I would reduce or eliminate the Accessibility modifier, though. The Cosmic modifier just about fits the bill without any discounts.

You do realise that the lists for monsters that you can summon with each spell basically has two to three options per character?* It's better than having just one type, yes, but it's a far cry from 'summon anything up to that point value'.

Basically, for Summon Monster I, you can get a dog or a very large rat. Or a few equally useless creatures, depending on the character and which Outer Planes he's comfortable** dealing with.

*Well, some are lucky and get up to five types of creatures.
**If his Disadvantages diverge enough from the 'ideal' for the plane, the GM can hose him and say 'Well, what did you think those -10% from Magical meant? It means that it follows the rules of magic in this universe.'

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by Gorkamorka

Sorry, what book?

As Sunrunners_Fire said. I can't figure out why they didn't reprint that in Thaumatology. It may not be perfect, but it isn't bad either. Basically you assign FP to different colleges and can only cast spells of that college if you have enough energy.

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by Icelander

You do realise that the lists for monsters that you can summon with each spell basically has two to three options per character? It's better than having just one type, yes, but it's a far cry from 'summon anything up to that point value'.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but are you modelling 4th edition Forgotten Realms? My PHB (D&D 3.5) lists a lot more options (about 10 per level), at least for wizards, sorcerors and bards. Clerics of extreme alignments get the short end of the stick and not all of the creatures are very useful, but if you want to model that with one ally they would need to have Morph and about 50 points for templates.

Edit: Sorry posted that before I saw your edited post. If you use the alignment rules for every kind of caster then I guess some Accessibility is justified, but I might just be better to reduce the cost of Cosmic (if you are using multiplicative modifiers that is). Whether the options are useful is another question, but the standard Ally advantages gets you exactly the same kind of creature each time, which is why I would be weary of giving more discounts.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but are you modelling 4th edition Forgotten Realms? My PHB (D&D 3.5) lists a lot more options (about 10 per level), at least for wizards, sorcerors and bards.

None of that 4e, don't know it at all. I'm modelling the Forgotten Realms, taking whatever D&D rule seems least inspired by the need to fit D&D mechanics and most meant to represent the spell is it should be.

Ten per level, yes, but few characters are allowed to summon more than a few of them. Summoning creatures from evil planes makes it an Evil spell, mutatis mutandis.

Also, if the creatures mostly have the same abilities, it hardly counts as a benefit to be able to get both.

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

Clerics of extreme alignments get the short end of the stick and not all of the creatures are very useful, but if you want to model that with one ally they would need to have Morph and about 50 points for templates.

The allies for Summon Monster I are worth -50 or so. They could theoretically be worth 50 points more and still come out to less than 5% of any character's value.

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

Edit: Sorry posted that before I saw your edited post. If you use the alignment rules for every kind of caster then I guess some Accessibility is justified, but I might just be better to reduce the cost of Cosmic (if you are using multiplicative modifiers that is). Whether the options are useful is another question, but the standard Ally advantages gets you exactly the same kind of creature each time, which is why I would be weary of giving more discounts.

I'm not using Multiplicative Modifiers, so using Cosmic +50% and Accessibility -30% comes out to simply adding a +20% to the cost of the Advantage for allowing a choice between a few types instead of being forced to always get the same one. Given that this choice is not at all wide, I could not justify much more.

If the list was slightly longer, I could maybe have reduced Accessibility down to -20%, but no more than that. With Cosmic +50% there and no Accessibility, the character could summon any type of Ally worth those points, which would be far more useful.

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by Icelander

The allies for Summon Monster I are worth -50 or so. They could theoretically be worth 50 points more and still come out to less than 5% of any character's value.

Good point. Did you consider using the modified Ally costs from Social Engineering p. 42?

Edit: And sorry for beating a very incidental dead horse.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

Good point. Did you consider using the modified Ally costs from Social Engineering p. 42?

I am using those. Still, it doesn't get any cheaper than 5% of your value, so a -50 point and a 10 point beastie will cost the same for a 200 point character to summon.

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

Edit: And sorry for beating a very incidental dead horse.

No problem, feedback is good. I need lots of feedback so I don't accidentally make some spells useless and others far too desirable.

[Gorkamorka]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Eh, I tried that. Cosmic No Die Roll, Cosmic No DR, Cosmic No Defence is +900%.

It ended up costing far too much compared to the utility. No player would spend 50 points on something that inflicts a major wound on 16% of ordinary foes and a mere annoying wound to anything worth fighting.

I had a look at the book and here is what I'm onto now.
5 points for 1d burning missile attack, -40% for once per day, Rapid Fire 3 +50%, Homing or Guided +50%.

So I end up with 6 points for a once per day 3 missile spell and up to 10 points for shooting as often as you want. There are no range penalty so you hit most of the time. Not quite ADnD Magic Missile, but close.

[Refplace]

I think Affliction builds work for the Power Words.
Power Word Stun and Kill practically write themselves. I do not recall the other ones, been a few decades since I messed with D&D.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I think Affliction builds work for the Power Words.
Power Word Stun and Kill practically write themselves. I do not recall the other ones, been a few decades since I messed with D&D.

http://www.d20srd.org/ is handy - it's 3.5 edition but even if you're trying to remember another edition, the spell lists remain handy :)

Power Word Blind is also pretty easy. I thought there was a Power Word Sleep (if so, it's again, self writing) and a Power Word Insanity (... Afflict: Halucinating?) but I can't find either of those.

[Darieltis]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I'm not using Multiplicative Modifiers, so using Cosmic +50% and Accessibility -30% comes out to simply adding a +20% to the cost of the Advantage for allowing a choice between a few types instead of being forced to always get the same one. Given that this choice is not at all wide, I could not justify much more.

If the list was slightly longer, I could maybe have reduced Accessibility down to -20%, but no more than that. With Cosmic +50% there and no Accessibility, the character could summon any type of Ally worth those points, which would be far more useful.

I've done pretty much the same thing by using a variant of the Variable enhancement modified to +20% to stay in line with the cost of adding alternative abilities (1/5 or 20% cost). I allow this enhancement to apply to summoning the elementals from DF: Summoners (i.e. instead of spending points to buy Minor Flight Spirit and Lightning Creature separately, the player may instead buy a Large Air Elemental, with the variable enhancement +20%, allowing him to choose between any/all 125 point air elementals).