[Magic] Combat-usability of Wizards

[TJA]

Hello together,
GURPS Mages work on a quite tactical level.

Combat in D&D allowed Mages in this system to not only have some one-shot-killers, but also get away with huge amounts of canonfodder easily.
D&D Mages could toss out about 9 * 9 levels per day - either in one encounter or split over the day.
Also, with missiles, there was no "to-hit" roll and no defense - beside an resistance roll to ignore or half damage ...

To simulate this in GURPS, you could use Modular Abilities, Wild Cards skills or Powers.

Did anybody actually *use* one of those systems?
With success?

How did you do it?

[TJA]

Also, what *Spells* are usable for such game in GURPS?

Deathtouch and Flesh to Stone come to mind ...

I cannot find "Meteor Swarm" in Magic :)
Powers could do that, of course.

I am aware, that there exists some writeup for "Magic Missiles" ... as a Power.

But what more "regular" Spells to use?

Background: My mage player is unsatisfied with GURPS Magic since years.
I wanted to create a Mage enemy for them as encounter - just to show off :)

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by TJA

.

I cannot find "Meteor Swarm" in Magic :)
Powers could do that, of course.

I am aware, that there exists some writeup for "Magic Missiles" ... as a Power.

But what more "regular" Spells to use?

Rain of Fire is going to be your bet for a meteor swarm equivalent. IIRC, there's a Pyramid that's got rain of Essential Fire, which is even worse.

[Gnome]

I have created my own powers-based magic system designed to supplement the skill-based system in GURPS Magic. I don't want to post all the details here, because I'm still harboring hopes of publishing it as a Pyramid article at some point, but the basic gist is that Magery becomes a Talent that helps with the activation rolls of magical abilities, which are categorized into the usual spell colleges, and Magery is also a prerequisite, often at some minimum level, for magical abilities. Each such ability has some level of the costs fatigue limitation as well as a requires attribute roll (Will+Magery) limitation and the magical power modifier. (I chose Will as opposed to IQ because I wanted to model a "sorcerer" type who has a lot of innate power not necessarily related to scholarly learning).

For example, my Fire College includes an innate burning attack that ends up costing 3 points/level after limitations, and you can buy one level per level of Magery, so a Dungeon Fantasy wizard type with Magery 6 could have a 6d burning innate attack, with the option of buying some additional enhancements as power-ups.

I hope this helps. I found that once I got going using the rules in the powers book, the abilities were actually really fun and easy to design!

[cbower]

Originally Posted by TJA

Background: My mage player is unsatisfied with GURPS Magic since years.
I wanted to create a Mage enemy for them as encounter - just to show off :)

How about an enemy with Curse-20 or 25? An opponent able to throw a level 3 Curse in 2 turns, and to do so at range, is fearsome. Just be prepared for potentially awful long-term consequences.

Another one: Madness at a high level is scary. Will-2 resistance, instead of straight-up Will, makes a big difference in effectiveness.

[Refplace]

Some effective combat spells from the Basic system.
All the missile spells get short shrift by people becasue they dont do massive damage but in reality 1 or 2d against most people is pretty effective in a low tech game. Even more so against a camp where you can set things on fire or disrupt the camp.
The jet spells are hortr range then the missile spells but faster and good for when your in short range.
The various body of spells can be stealthy or cause havoc and letting the mage have some decent defenses in many cases.
Summon and control elementals can also be quite dandy at wrecking a camp.
I have used the animal spells to create a stampede or terrify enemy calvaery.
Body spells are incredilby powerful save or die effects in many cases.
Soul Rider, Dream and mind control spells again against yoru army are going to be very effective.
Earth has lots of good defense spells for protecting your army, especially from a charge. Or if you want to mess with that enemy camp how about starting a volcano or geyser in it or upslope from it?
Gate and movement spells can let you put your army in the right place faster and give you some nasty tricks to pull off as well.
Oh and dont forget that if your talking armies that means you have lots of people around who you can probably get to help you with some ceremonial casting for some larger effects.
Healing of course is awesome at getting your guys back on the field and has some nasty attacks to boot.
Air Vision can let you see through the fog they cant :)
Making and Breaking even can do a lot if you can get close enough. Cast Weaken or even disntegrate on some supply wagons or tents.
PLant spells are another great way to make life rough for an enemy, especially an army.
I love Mystic Mist, especailly in a swamp area or place filled with natural hazards (or ones you made) and the whole protection and warning college is infamous for its power with things like force dome and missile shield or worse reverse missiles.
Even the mostly ignored Sound college has ways to dramatically change a battlefield. And concusion is an underated missile spell.
Illusion is another fantastic way to go to really muck things up for your eneimies, it just takes some good planning and thought.

I had a gnome illusion/animal/earth/plant/Meta mage who pretty much turned away an army while the rest of the PCs were preparing for the attack that never came. I voluntered to go delay them while they prepared defenses and raised some local militia and wound up killing and demorilizing enough of the enemy that they routed. I think he was about 200 points at the time in 3E and he had a few other spells and not all in those colleges but those above are the ones I recall using the most in that battle and were his focus overall.

It just irks me when D&D players start using GURPS and think mages are weak becasue they cant toss 20d fireballs. Its not like the enemy humans or orcs have a hundred hit points in GURPS after all. And as I said above there are sooo many ways a mage can do thigns that they are incredibily powerful. If your side has a mage and the other one doesnt you should win in most circumstances.

[Refplace]

As for a Powers based mage sure there easy, I built a system and submitted it but didnt get published. Not sure where it stands at the moment since I never heard back from any queries but it was effective, though I wouldn't want to use it at less then a 200 point game. More power, less versatility but would suit the classic D&D mindset or artillery concept.

[TJA]

Thanx a bunch, all of you!

I am going to re-read those spell descriptions ...

Gnome and Refplace, of course i am earger to see more about what you did with powers :)
Yep, would buy any such system!

####

BTW, i was not talking about an army - just about some group of characters against some enemies, maybe in a Dungeon.

[TJA]

A "regular" mage will have problems because of Fatigue ...

Even with FP 20 and ER 20, that will will be drained fast against many enemies or several fights in short time.

I thought that Modules Abilities help with that fatigue cost, but after re-reading, it seems tombe that using Modular Abilities or Wild Talent does not help with the Fatigue cost ... they just give ways to know formerly unknown Spells or Skills, but nowhere effects on fatigue costs are mentioned.

Did i missread something?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by TJA

I thought that Modules Abilities help with that fatigue cost, but after re-reading, it seems tombe that using Modular Abilities or Wild Talent does not help with the Fatigue cost ... they just give ways to know formerly unknown Spells or Skills, but nowhere effects on fatigue costs are mentioned.

Did i missread something?

If you have bought Modular abilities with Spells Only limitation, otherwise you can loaded Extra Fatigue into the MA... especial if you Bought Cosmic pool.

The 'Spell' Recover Energy helps a lot

but if you talk point total where FP and ER of 20, you Better off buy Regenration (FP/EP Only), probably with Granted by Familiar -40% as well.

A MA Spellbook mage cost a bit to set up to be strong, but once played for they are very Flexibly,with extra flexability comes in GURPS$ not CP.