Knowledge skills for Mythology

[oneofmanynameless]

If someone had a Ph.D. in Mythological Studies, or Comparative Mythology, what would their main skills be? Literature (perhaps with a specialization)? Occultism? Connoisseur (literature) (also with a specialization)? Theology (Comparative)?

What about studies of folk lore? same skills? Expert skill ([region/time] folklore)?

I've observed that quite a few fantasy authors and gamers have a notably above average knowledge base regarding mythology, often interconnected with real world occult lore (including knowledge of strange cult religions and historical magic related stuff.) And I'm just very curious what skills actually cover that knowledge base. It seems interconnected, but how much of it is occultism vs. other skills, and what are those other skills?

Related question: if you were building a character inspired by an author like Neil Gaiman, besides writing and research, what occult and mythological knowledge skills would you give them? What about an academic character inspired by Joseph Campbell?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Related question: if you were building a character inspired by an author like Neil Gaiman, besides writing and research, what occult and mythological knowledge skills would you give them? What about an academic character inspired by Joseph Campbell?

It could be a lot of different skills, depending on focus.
Theology (Comparative) seems the best overall fit but for a generalist. Theology (Specific Mythology) would be appropriate for most academics who tend to have a broad knowledge but also a focus on specific cultures.

Alternatively, History specializes by region or Era so would be narrower in scope but fits those I know. History (Egyptian Mythology) or History (Celtic Mythology) would be an optional specialization of History (regional).
Literature would be about prior books written on the subject. Useful for researching and citations.

For Campbell I would give him Theology (Comparative); History (Folklore); and Psychology with a specialty, not sure what to call it though. He also had Literature (BA), probably go with Literature (Medieval). Reading his wiki I would also give him Linguistics and a couple of languages.

Neil Gaiman I would say is a better writer, he covers different mediums and is more engaging to read. Campbell came across to me as a bit dry and sometimes pedantic.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Literature would be about prior books written on the subject. Useful for researching and citations.

I don't think "Literature" in GURPS means knowledge of the scholarly literature on an academic field or subject. Knowledge of scholarly literature in general equals Research; knowledge of scholarly literature in a particular field equals the skill for that field. Literature in GURPS means belles lettres, or more broadly the high, folk, and popular arts expressed in language. Heinlein's The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress or Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky is "literature"; Tucker's Instead of a Book or Mises' Human Action or Friedman's The Machinery of Freedom is not—those are works of economics or political science or political philosophy.

The skill of Literature could be used to study many primary sources, such as the Homeric Hymns or the Rg Veda, or perhaps compendia that have come to be read as belles lettres, such as the Theogony or the Elder Edda. But I don't think it would include the study of Campbell or Dumézil or other mythographers.

I can see including the study of myths in Theology (Comparative or for any religion that has myths). But I don't know if religion=mythology or mythology=religion. It might be a simpler solution to define Expert Skill: Mythography and say that it includes any elements of anthropology, history, literature, philosophy, and theology that relate to myths.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't think "Literature" in GURPS means knowledge of the scholarly literature on an academic field or subject. Knowledge of scholarly literature in general equals Research; knowledge of scholarly literature in a particular field equals the skill for that field. Literature in GURPS means belles lettres, or more broadly the high, folk, and popular arts expressed in language. Heinlein's The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress or Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky is "literature"; Tucker's Instead of a Book or Mises' Human Action or Friedman's The Machinery of Freedom is not—those are works of economics or political science or political philosophy.

The skill of Literature could be used to study many primary sources, such as the Homeric Hymns or the Rg Veda, or perhaps compendia that have come to be read as belles lettres, such as the Theogony or the Elder Edda. But I don't think it would include the study of Campbell or Dumézil or other mythographers.

I can see including the study of myths in Theology (Comparative or for any religion that has myths). But I don't know if religion=mythology or mythology=religion. It might be a simpler solution to define Expert Skill: Mythography and say that it includes any elements of anthropology, history, literature, philosophy, and theology that relate to myths.

I'll agree that the major works in a field should be known by someone with the right skills and Literature is not needed. But Campbell got a BA in English Literature then a Masters in Miedval literature. To me he should qualify for the GURPS Literature skill with that background.
Also I think Literature is a valid skill, though not the best one for knowing about Mythology.

As for Religion=Mythology I think that is more a matter of faith and social norms than a skill difference. A Biblical Scholar would have the appropriate Theology skill, regardless of their actual faith (if any).

As for Expert Skill I am fine with that too, I offered a list of options to choose from rather than trying to force a specific build.

I do wish optional specializations had included a technique build to better handle some things, especially the way the Masters and Doctorate programs tend to work. Something like Specialty (A) default skill-2; up to skill+5.

[Donny Brook]

The easy way would be Expert Skill (Greek (or whatever) Mythology), which would allow rolls against appropriate History, Literature, Theology, Archaeology etc .

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

The easy way would be Expert Skill (Greek (or whatever) Mythology), which would allow rolls against appropriate History, Literature, Theology, Archaeology etc .

Confining it to mythology seems a bit narrow. We have, for example, Egyptology as an Expert Skill; it covers a lot more than just Egyptian myths. I copy edit a journal of classical studies, and it covers archaeology, art, history, literature, philosophy, and various more specialized studies.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Refplace

As for Religion=Mythology I think that is more a matter of faith and social norms than a skill difference. A Biblical Scholar would have the appropriate Theology skill, regardless of their actual faith (if any).

Religion and Mythology have surprisingly little to do with each other. Yo can know all of the stories of the ancient Greek/Roman gods and heroes that make up what we usually call "Classical Mythology" and not have a clue about when to sacrifice to Zeus/Jupiter.

Even if you look at the more familiar Christian Bible if you extract a "mythology" from it you've got "Bible stories". Religious philosophy and requirements of the faith are a significant step beyond that while Theology is not so big on exactly how tall Goliath was.

So, nope. An expert in mythology needs no Theology Skil.

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Yo can know all of the stories of the ancient Greek/Roman gods and heroes that make up what we usually call "Classical Mythology" and not have a clue about when to sacrifice to Zeus/Jupiter.

Isn't that precisely the split between Theology and Religious Ritual (in GURPS terms)?

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Neil Gaiman I would say is a better writer, he covers different mediums and is more engaging to read. Campbell came across to me as a bit dry and sometimes pedantic.

Neil Gaiman writes fiction, and it is his job first and foremost to be entertaining. He is allowed to change and invent myth as he sees fit, as long as it's dramatically appropriate and results in an entertaining tale.

Joseph Campbell was an academic writing about academic themes, and it was his job first and foremost to be accurate. If he changed just about anything at all to suit his amour propre, he would've been discredited and discarded. Comparing them is unreasonable.

That being said, my vote on the general subject is Literature. Theology? Not really. Most popular treatments of "mythology" involve stories. We hear relatively little information on the doctrine and dogma of the faith of Odin, the practices of his priests, the details of his worship. Instead, we see stories: Odin giving life to Ask and Embla at the creation of the world, Odin and the Valkyries, Odin sacrificing his eye for wisdom, Odin hanging from Yggdrasil, Odin foretelling and seeking to stave off Ragnarok.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Neil Gaiman writes fiction, and it is his job first and foremost to be entertaining. He is allowed to change and invent myth as he sees fit, as long as it's dramatically appropriate and results in an entertaining tale.

Joseph Campbell was an academic writing about academic themes, and it was his job first and foremost to be accurate. If he changed just about anything at all to suit his amour propre, he would've been discredited and discarded. Comparing them is unreasonable.

That being said, my vote on the general subject is Literature. Theology? Not really. Most popular treatments of "mythology" involve stories. We hear relatively little information on the doctrine and dogma of the faith of Odin, the practices of his priests, the details of his worship. Instead, we see stories: Odin giving life to Ask and Embla at the creation of the world, Odin and the Valkyries, Odin sacrificing his eye for wisdom, Odin hanging from Yggdrasil, Odin foretelling and seeking to stave off Ragnarok.

True-as far as that goes. On the other hand if you are positing an aspect of mythology that would make you go on a quest for more than antiquarian curiosity (such as an amulet vaguely inspired by some myth) you will have to give him Theology or Philosophy or Occultism. Probably the later. I know perfectly well why Jews only say the half-halel at Passover (saying the full is rejoicing over ones enemies which does not fit modern values though it admittedly has some precedence in Psalms but the half is just for one's own freedom). However that theological thing is irrelevant unless you are telling a romance, a novel of manners, or a coming of age involving Jews. For a fantastic story you would want something involving a golem and there is nothing theological about golems.