New Reality Seeds

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this one Ogre-3 is a Q6 post-apocalyptic parallel were a plague destroyed civilization. What the plague did was caused more than 70% of all children to be born totally lacking empathy of any kind. It's a world of sociopaths. Strangely enough majority of the children who were not turned into sociopaths have both the Empathy and Intuition advantages. The local year is one year behind Homeline and Centrum.

Most of the world is bleak and ruinous. Bands of brutal raiders, often dressed in truly bazaar clothing, roam the countryside pointlessly destroying things and engaged in mindless competitions, often forcing captives into gladiatorial combat. Those who minds aren't damaged by the plague live in small hidden communities which are often very pleasant in a quiet way. The "Ogres" (the sociopathic plague victims) often raid these communities looking for women and children. Because the Ogres are totally sociopathic, they aren't able to raise enough children to replace there numbers.
...
Note: The Ogre tag is for worlds were a new or modified life form is a major threat to humanity.

Sooooo, Mad Max world?

Though I must say that lack of empathy does not make someone a bad person. I have rather weak empathy, but basic honor, and sympathy more than make up for it, in my opinion.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Interesting. Kind of a variant Gotha timeline... if you wanted to fit it into that metafiction, the "good" mutations could be the result of an intentional counter-disease.

One way or the other, I think it would be most interesting to explore the during-collapse years. A small but significant portion of the population consists of sleepers or something, and the PCs are trying to deal with the constantly increasing rouge maniacs, all while having to deal with the political side of things.

I agree with the collapse years being a good setting. Society would slowly rot away in deeply scary ways. And, yes, some sociopaths are very good at hiding who they are. Thus the name "Ogre." Some Ogres are obvious, others are hidden till they strike out of the blue and start prepping you for their dinner.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Sooooo, Mad Max world?

Though I must say that lack of empathy does not make someone a bad person. I have rather weak empathy, but basic honor and sympathy more than make up for it, in my opinion.

You, like me, are bad at reading people, we've no problem realizing the other person can feel too. Sociopaths can't imagine the other person's feelings. So they can't find either their honor or their sympathy.

Oh yes, Mad Max, Van Dame's Cyborg, Escape From New York, Escape from L.A., and similar films are a major theme. You nailed that one.

[patchwork]

Am I missing something about No Empathy? How do you represent an Ogre mechanically (i.e. what Disad does the virus give a typical victim? Sadism?)

And I'm not sure you get Mad Max/Cyborg levels of collapse 30 years after the event - intelligent sociopaths can be extremely effective short term planners. Think Handmaid's Tale, the Nazis, probably North Korea...all of these states are arguably planned and run by sociopaths, and all of them worked for a while. I would think Ogre would be like "why is every nation-state on this worldline a repressive fascist/totalitarian crazyfest when its divergence point was only in the early 20th century?" So the investigators begin investigating, and possibly become infected...30 years sounds like the beginning of the end, to me. Although perhaps I just created Ogres 1 or 2.

[Flyndaran]

Unfettered capitalism is the native home of sociopaths. Don't ever forget that.
Mad Max sociopaths have Low Empathy, Sadism, and OPH: Bully for starters.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by patchwork

Am I missing something about No Empathy? How do you represent an Ogre mechanically (i.e. what Disad does the virus give a typical victim? Sadism?)

And I'm not sure you get Mad Max/Cyborg levels of collapse 30 years after the event - intelligent sociopaths can be extremely effective short term planners. Think Handmaid's Tale, the Nazis, probably North Korea...all of these states are arguably planned and run by sociopaths, and all of them worked for a while. I would think Ogre would be like "why is every nation-state on this worldline a repressive fascist/totalitarian crazyfest when its divergence point was only in the early 20th century?" So the investigators begin investigating, and possibly become infected...30 years sounds like the beginning of the end, to me. Although perhaps I just created Ogres 1 or 2.

Sadism may be a little too much. I don't know that sociopaths always delight in the suffering of others; it just never occurs to them to think about such suffering, at all. They do what they can to get what they want, without regard for anyone else.

I'd say that "Low Empathy", "Selfish" and "Stubborness" would probably work well enough, with "Bully" and/or "On The Edge" for those who have been thoughtlessly brutalizing people for a long time. I'd imagine that a few also have "Sadism," but I'm not sure it would be required for the template.

The thing is, sadists delight in the pain of others, and sociopaths can't really understand the pain of others. To a real sociopath, other people are either facilitators or obstacles, and that's all.

If someone else is a facilitator, the sociopath will use him or her to get what they want. If someone is an obstacle, the sociopath cuts them down with about as much thought as clearing a path through a jungle with a machete -- it's just a necessary chore, sometimes.

It would be fun to see you flesh this idea out, a bit more. I may have use for it. :)

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Unfettered capitalism is the native home of sociopaths. Don't ever forget that.

(SNIP)

Oh, I think that overstates matters by so much that it's no longer a useful description.

I work at a firm with lots of high-end business-types. They laugh, and have friends and people they love, and even charities and causes they care about.

However, they also clearly view the vast majority of people as "others" they don't love, and don't count as friends and companions, and have nothing in common with because those "others" don't care about the same things as them.

Those "others" exist primarily as means and opportunity to make money.

Now, most of the guys who work, there, are smart enough to realize that treating people decently is the smart, long-term strategy (this is an investment firm, after all), but it is most definitely just a strategy. If they don't know you, and you don't support their causes, or provide an opportunity for them to make money, then they mostly just don't care what happens to you.

The bigger picture is only something that interests them, to the extent it affects them, financially. In that way, they don't really differ all that much from most people.

However, it also means that the term "business ethics" is, for the most part, an oxymoron in the same league as "Microsoft Works" or "Creation science."

[Flyndaran]

Ethics does not equal nice morality. Business ethics merely need to be internally consistent and function successfully for business goals.

Again lack of empathy is completely unconnected to sadism or cruelty.
Nazi concentration camp guards loved their families and likely were kind to stray animals despite their evils to fellow people.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by patchwork

Am I missing something about No Empathy? How do you represent an Ogre mechanically (i.e. what Disad does the virus give a typical victim? Sadism?)

And I'm not sure you get Mad Max/Cyborg levels of collapse 30 years after the event - intelligent sociopaths can be extremely effective short term planners. Think Handmaid's Tale, the Nazis, probably North Korea...all of these states are arguably planned and run by sociopaths, and all of them worked for a while. I would think Ogre would be like "why is every nation-state on this worldline a repressive fascist/totalitarian crazyfest when its divergence point was only in the early 20th century?" So the investigators begin investigating, and possibly become infected...30 years sounds like the beginning of the end, to me. Although perhaps I just created Ogres 1 or 2.

In a world where 70% of people are sociopaths many of them would develop many other problems as well as society devolved. And as no society as prepared for that many sociopaths all at once, and many normal kids going through rough patches would be mislabeled sociopaths, you'd lack enough people to keep society going.

Sociopaths without a context of non-sociopaths wouldn't be able to sustain society or raise children. You'd be forced into the Hobbesian war of "each against all." Life would be nasty, brutish, and short.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Unfettered capitalism is the native home of sociopaths. Don't ever forget that.
Mad Max sociopaths have Low Empathy, Sadism, and OPH: Bully for starters.

All of which would be logical side effects of being raised among sociopaths. How else would you survive? In our world sociopaths learn charm because it's how they can best survive. A sociopath among sociopaths would only learn how to wound and scare.