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Old 04-12-2017, 11:20 AM   #51
InLaNoche
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

kool. For the effect I talked about, it would not be an 'active' effect, such as the dummy striking back. More like the attack being affected by what he hit. In the case of earth, possibly taking damage do to hitting a stone object. This might really be a mute point as in this type of game, punching through stone may be done on a regular basis. Was just trying to make it a bit more dynamic per school. Not really needed.

Still this is great. I just need to have it's use cleared up a bit. When I would attempt this at say level 3 (skill would be 6), I would call this skill as my attempt to dodge. Would I be rolling against the 6 or my regular dodge, but getting below 6 means I pull off the technique?
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:55 AM   #52
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

Quote:
Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
For the effect I talked about, it would not be an 'active' effect, such as the dummy striking back. More like the attack being affected by what he hit.
This would still use Innate Attack, but you'd use modifiers like Aura to turn it into something that automatically hit anyone who targeted you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InLaNoche
I just need to have it's use cleared up a bit. When I would attempt this at say level 3 (skill would be 6), I would call this skill as my attempt to dodge. Would I be rolling against the 6 or my regular dodge, but getting below 6 means I pull off the technique?
Actually, that's a good point. I'd say that you still roll against your basic Dodge skill to dodge at all, but you only get the substitution effect if you roll your Substitution Technique level. I'd say you still have to spend the 1 FP before declaring the dodge at all, though - you can't wait to see if your dodge will be enough to meet the substitution technique level and then spend, you've got to do it in advance.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:57 AM   #53
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Okay, here goes. As always, if something doesn't make sense, ask and I'll try to explain better.

So, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements codifies the idea of enhancing a character's base traits - things like unarmed damage, your basic attributes, and so forth. If you want your fists to penetrate armor, for example, this is the go-to set of rules. The basic idea is, you figure out how much it would cost to buy the stat up from "zero", apply your enhancements to that cost, and then only pay the difference, the points that it would cost to have the enhanced trait. If you calculate it would cost 10 points to buy a trait up from zero, and apply a +20% enhancement, then you'd only actually pay 2 points to have that enhancement on the trait (the difference between the unmodified 10 points and the 12 points you'd pay after applying +20%).

Among the ideas presented there is the notion of enhancing defenses, which is what I'm going to suggest here. Buying up defenses from zero uses the cost of Enhanced Defenses to set the "base cost", so that's what my numbers are based on.

Now, the "substitution technique" is basically a dodge - it's a matter of getting out of the way of an attack, rather than blocking it or parrying it. However, it's also deceptive - after using it, the character is not usually just behind the dummy that gets hit, they're popping up somewhere else. I think all this can be covered by a new Cosmic modifier for Dodge, let's call it "Displacement". Here's how I'd write up the modifier:

Cosmic, Displacement: When you successfully dodge, you literally aren't where the opponent thought you were - your "body" vanishes in a puff of smoke, is revealed as a simple object concealed by illusion, or is otherwise revealed as false. Meanwhile, you must decide where you really are located. This can be any place that fits two criteria. First, it must be a location you can still see the battle from. Second, it must be a place you could have reached (based on Basic Move and other traits that you can use to move) since the last time your position was definitely fixed. For example, if you attacked the foe successfully on your turn, that's where you were - you probably couldn't have been somewhere else and actually hit them. On the other hand, if you had been hiding in the bushes for three turns, your location options could be much higher - anywhere that had cover for you to hide that was within three turns of movement would be a plausible place to be.
If your new position would involve concealing yourself from an enemy who had already spotted you, you must make the relevant skill roll, probably in a Quick Contest, when you dodge. If you fail the roll, you were never concealed in the first place, and you are actually where people think you are (you do still successfully dodge the attack, though). +50%.

So, for this ability, since it's part of the ninja powers, we'll also apply the usual Elemental Chi power modifier. That makes the modifier to apply to Dodge +35%. Enhanced Dodge is the relevant trait to calculate the cost of Dodge, so the base cost is 15 points per level of Dodge affected. That means the cost per each level of Dodge affected is going to be 5.25 points (15 +35% is 20.25 points, minus the base 15 cost).

Since the substitution technique is sort of its own skill in the Naruto setting, let's let characters buy it up basically independently of their normal Dodge, rather than fixing it exactly to their Dodge score. It shouldn't exceed Dodge, though, since I don't think you should be better at dodging using esoteric illusion techniques rather than just, you know, getting out of the way.

So the ability would look like this:

Substitution Technique
Level 1: 16 points, level 2 and higher 5.25 points


You can avoid an attack by placing a "dummy" formed from your chosen element and concealed by an illusion in place of yourself.
To use this technique to defend, you must spend 1 Chi or FP, and roll against a target number of 3 (plus 1 for every level after the first). If you succeed, the attack strikes the dummy, not you, and you can declare that you are actually at another location entirely, which must be a place you could have reached since the last time your actions would have required you to be in a specific location.
You can only buy levels of this ability to improve your target to avoid attacks up to the level of your regular Dodge target. Any penalties that would apply to your Dodge defense also apply to your roll to use this ability.

Statistics: Level one: Basic Dodge level 3, enhanced (Cosmic: Displacement, +50%; Elemental Chi, -15%) [16]. Each additional level enhances another level of basic Dodge, + [5.25].
That makes the effect more costly than using a limited version of Warp. It CLEARLY aint a good solution.

A better approach would be using the guidelines under Power Ups 1 Imbue and "turning skills into advantages" (I just dont remember where is that now).

However, you could also use a limited version of Warp with a nuisance effect (visual manifestation - dummie) and linked with the desired version of the effects the dummies must have (like binding for the Water). Emergencies Only, Active Defense, plus the Chi (-10 or -15%) and "Cost Chi Only" (-10%/level)
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:33 PM   #54
InLaNoche
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

I was working a 'warp' power for Air. It's base is 100pts. Looking at how it works, I was looking at this:
Warp (base 100pts), 1 Second at -5 IQ
• Costs CHI -5%/point
• Costs extra CHI -5%/point
• Reliable[2] gives +2 to rolls +10%
• Range Limit (10 Yards) -50%

but even if I work down the -%s, it can only drop to -80%, which would make it 20 pts. If it is a skill, not sure how that would translate to levels. I want the powers in this game to level, so I like Kelly's version of the substitution dodge. It seems to fit the way I want the mechanics to flow.

@Kelly,
Yes, it would have it declared from the dodge if you are expending Chi to perform the substitution maneuver. On a successful dodge, if you roll below your substitution skill, you dodge, substitute a dummy, and move to a new location as if that is where you were must be visible, and at max your move (legal moves) distance from where you attempted the dodge. Maybe like at every 5th level, you can buy the substitution part, that will upgrade the effect every 5. In this instance, I might make it an option to buy (though I think I can work it as 1 pt. per level similar to the Arms of Stone)...

Can this 'skill' be based off Dodge then? Or should it be DX or IQ? Here is another part in the equation where I seem to falter...

Last edited by InLaNoche; 04-12-2017 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:48 PM   #55
mikeejimbo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

Quote:
Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
I was working a 'warp' power for Air. It's base is 100pts. Looking at how it works, I was looking at this:
Warp (base 100pts), 1 Second at -5 IQ
• Costs CHI -5%/point
• Costs extra CHI -5%/point
• Reliable[2] gives +2 to rolls +10%
• Range Limit (10 Yards) -50%

but even if I work down the -%s, it can only drop to -80%, which would make it 20 pts. If it is a skill, not sure how that would translate to levels. I want the powers in this game to level, so I like Kelly's version of the substitution dodge. It seems to fit the way I want the mechanics to flow.
You could gradually increase the range, increase the reliable bonus, and at some level reduce the Chi cost. It might make a good ability in conjunction with Substitution Dodge. (The character can Dodge when attacked and teleport when on the offense, perhaps!) I'm not sure how I'd make it a skill offhand, myself.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:46 PM   #56
InLaNoche
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by mikeejimbo View Post
You could gradually increase the range, increase the reliable bonus, and at some level reduce the Chi cost. It might make a good ability in conjunction with Substitution Dodge. (The character can Dodge when attacked and teleport when on the offense, perhaps!) I'm not sure how I'd make it a skill offhand, myself.
How do you work up increasing, say the reliable bonus? it's I believe 5% per +1, which is not really a set number, or I guess it's based off the initial cost? or you have to pay the difference? initially value is 100 - (-15% - 5% - 50% + 10 = -60%) 60% is 40 pts. But add another +1 would change the modifier from -60% to -55%, and therefore would cost an additional 5 point (the basee of 100 makes this easy).

I'll think about that, but I'm liking Kelly's lightning Speed, but might want that to be limited use? anyways, all great stuff. I keep bumping back and forth, I need to finish at least 1 template... :)
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:06 PM   #57
mikeejimbo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
How do you work up increasing, say the reliable bonus? it's I believe 5% per +1, which is not really a set number, or I guess it's based off the initial cost? or you have to pay the difference? initially value is 100 - (-15% - 5% - 50% + 10 = -60%) 60% is 40 pts. But add another +1 would change the modifier from -60% to -55%, and therefore would cost an additional 5 point (the basee of 100 makes this easy).
Yes, for the next level you can just pay the difference. Naturally whether the player can do that is up to the GM, but of course you're the GM in this case, so you get to make the various levels however you want!
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:59 PM   #58
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

I think its best to give a skill for your ability
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:03 AM   #59
InLaNoche
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
I think its best to give a skill for your ability
I was just about to ask about this. So for instance, there is the innate attack advantage, which is the actual power. Then you have the innate attack skill, which you would use instead of DX for the roll. Do I create them separately? Or do I combine them as a power skill? Would the base cost be the combination of the two? How would I work levelling up increasing damage and skill with the attack? Is it as simple as paying both costs?
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:18 AM   #60
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by Powers pag 161
When using this option, a power skill exists for any ability – passive or active – that requires an activation roll (not just an attack roll). This
is a Hard skill named after the underlying advantage and based on its controlling score. Those who possess the ability must roll against the associated skill to use it. Unskilled users roll at default: (controlling attribute)-6. Talent benefits both trained and default use. Individuals
who lack the ability can’t learn its skill or use it at default, even if they have the correct power and a high level of Talent.
Example: Healing is based on IQ. If the GM requires skills to use psi powers, a psychic healer with Healing must roll against Healing (IQ/Hard) to use his ability – or at IQ-6 if untrained. In either case, his Healing Talent gives a bonus. The GM decides which powers require skills, and for which abilities. This has no effect on the cost of power modifiers or Talents, as the short-term drawbacks balance the long-term benefits. Those without training
do have a large penalty (-6 for working at default) relative to individuals with “wild” abilities or powers that don’t require skills. Even trainees who know the skill have a small penalty at low levels (-2 or -1 with only 1 or 2 points in the skill). Ultimately, though, they can buy as much skill as they wish, allowing them to perform feats far beyond the capabilities of those limited to just attributes and Talent.
The power and the skill are separated things. In the moment that you create the specific skill for a power - for example, Warp (HT/H) - it becames a learnable skill like any other. So, you buy it independently from the power - or even, dont buy it at all, and use at default with Atribute-6 (or Skill-6, as you as GM wish).

I personally dont agree with the book that this shouldnt change the cost of the power, because in my opnion it does, usually nobody will spend more than a single point on a skill, rather increasing atributes... And even if someone WOULD, its 4 pts per level on a skill, while you can increase IQ, HT and ST with 10, DX with 15 and Per or Will with only 5... So, its not really worthed.
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