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Old 05-05-2021, 10:02 AM   #21
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Create-ing Internally

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Originally Posted by Polkageist View Post
Well, trivially displaceable gasses in an unenclosed space. Makes you wonder if using Create <Foo> in an sealed enclosed space would measurably increase the air pressure. Or maybe it wouldn't work. Can o' worms!
In The Zombie Knight Saga, the main character recently exploited this, albeit only experimentally so far. Hector is capable of materializing iron, so as an experiment to see how far he could launch something, he created an oversized iron cannon, capped it off, and then started filling the inside with more iron. Eventually, the pressure got too high and he wasn't able to materialize any more iron inside it (in TZKS, materializers can't create things inside of solids or, it appears, sufficiently-compressed gases). Just how high this pressure was wasn't explored, because he then proceeded to replace some of the solid iron inside with molten iron, while slowly eliminating the iron cap. The resulting explosion (and propelling of the test projectile) was quite impressive. TZKS's "materialization" ability would be a nightmare to try to incorporate into GURPS, however.
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Old 05-05-2021, 12:35 PM   #22
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Create-ing Internally

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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
I think the spirit of Create is "you can make something out of nothing," not "you can cause something to appear whose appearance in that particular place has a useful side-effect on another character," and I think it's priced accordingly.
I agree. IMO, Create is a last-ditch effort to plug any hole that slips past all the other ways of doing things. There's always that elemental character that's supposed to just create water or rocks or whatever. But that's actually a minor trick of such a concept, not their core ability, however much the name "Create" might line up with a casual description of their abilities.

If you can build an ability some other way, then do it that way. Creating for damage is an Innate Attack, creating food is going to be something like Doesn't Eat for a day (or perhaps healing the condition of 'hungry"); creating granite overshoes that merge with the bedrock is Binding, and so on. You can use the word "create" in the descriptions of all of those abilities, but they're not built on Create. If you can create your elemental for a lot of different purposes, then you've got an Alternate Ability (or perhaps Modular if you're really flexible).
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Old 05-05-2021, 01:03 PM   #23
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Create-ing Internally

I'd note that Ranged creation specifies that it never works inside a foe. That is rather specific in not barring it from working inside non-foes!
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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
I think the spirit of Create is "you can make something out of nothing," not "you can cause something to appear whose appearance in that particular place has a useful side-effect on another character," and I think it's priced accordingly.
Something like half the text of Create is about directly using it as a weapon.
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Creating something inside a foe to damage them is an obvious violation of this spirit, so it's not allowed. Creating food or water inside someone's stomach violates the spirit as well — nourishing them is a side-effect of the Creation — but they can just go and eat or drink what you created, so why would you spend character points to stabilize this Created matter?
...What are you saying here? I can't make head nor tail of those last two clauses.

If you don't stabilize it it only exists for 10 seconds - I'm not sure whether or not that's meant to require stabilization for consumables or not, the text talks about how modifications to the material impact reclaiming points from stable materials, but not how they effect unstable materials.
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Old 05-05-2021, 01:16 PM   #24
Plane
 
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Default Re: Create-ing Internally

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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
I think the spirit of Create is "you can make something out of nothing," not "you can cause something to appear whose appearance in that particular place has a useful side-effect on another character," and I think it's priced accordingly.

Creating something inside a foe to damage them is an obvious violation of this spirit, so it's not allowed.
Create Iron 2 (Ranged +40% Reduced Duration 1/10 -20% Reduced Range 1/5 -20%) [10] would let you spend 2 FP to create a 40lb anvil up to 10 yards away which vanishes after 1 second. That could probably do some decent damage but not compete with innate attack.

Where it might eventually become a problem is at really high levels since the weight you create improves exponentially.
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Old 05-06-2021, 12:06 PM   #25
naloth
 
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Default Re: Create-ing Internally

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Create blatantly says you can't create inside a foe. Presumably this is because being able to, say, create ten pounds (or even an ounce) of iron inside the lungs is a fairly painful death.
I didn't read every reply, but offhand it sounds like you're trying to explain why you should get other abilities included with the purchase of Create. GURPS is a buy what you get system. If you can create food such that you don't need to eat then get Doesn't Eat as part of your powers. If you can create air such that you don't need to breath, then take Doesn't Breathe. If you can create nitrogen in an opponent's blood stream, that justifies quite a few different types of afflictions (intoxicated, all types of pain, death).

As a power stunt (see Powers) it's thematic for Create to provide food or air.

Likewise, if you took Create! you'd easily be able to justify setting the wildcard part of your abilities to helping you eat, breath, stay warm, etc.

Outside of the above, you shouldn't get benefits unless you take the advantages that give you those benefits.
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Old 05-06-2021, 12:10 PM   #26
naloth
 
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Create Iron 2 (Ranged +40% Reduced Duration 1/10 -20% Reduced Range 1/5 -20%) [10] would let you spend 2 FP to create a 40lb anvil up to 10 yards away which vanishes after 1 second. That could probably do some decent damage but not compete with innate attack.

Where it might eventually become a problem is at really high levels since the weight you create improves exponentially.
It would be better to buy an alternate attack. While the damage may increase, it's still an awkward attack since you have to hit (Ranged functions as a normal ranged attack) above where your target will be after it falls (presumably next turn since you also need a turn of move to build up momentum).

I fiddled with using Control to do slams for a while, but it was more work than it was worth.
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Old 05-06-2021, 07:57 PM   #27
kirbwarrior
 
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Default Re: Create-ing Internally

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I'd note that Ranged creation specifies that it never works inside a foe. That is rather specific in not barring it from working inside non-foes!
That is true. That's part of why I thought that creating in a nonharmful way in a willing subject would be okay. Note that I mean nonharmful as literally as possible, meaning that it couldn't be enough that would hurt them anywhere it would.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
If you can create food such that you don't need to eat then get Doesn't Eat as part of your powers.
Doesn't Eat doesn't quite cover enough. A character that can, say, snatch only apples doesn't have Doesn't Eat, but the ability to create an object that can be eaten (with all the time and effort of eating). They still have to worry about eating (especially when unconscious) but can also feed others. Trying to build that as some complicated Affliction+Healing is awkward and likely far more expensive than makes sense.

Namely, Create already works fine as being able to create something someone can ingest (Create Water has all sorts of upsides and one of them is being able to drink it). One of the main things I'm wondering is if I can skip the, say, drinking step altogether as part of just Creating it directly inside (which only means the user without Ranged).
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Old 05-07-2021, 12:31 PM   #28
naloth
 
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Doesn't Eat doesn't quite cover enough. A character that can, say, snatch only apples doesn't have Doesn't Eat, but the ability to create an object that can be eaten (with all the time and effort of eating). They still have to worry about eating (especially when unconscious) but can also feed others. Trying to build that as some complicated Affliction+Healing is awkward and likely far more expensive than makes sense.
I'm not sure what you mean. Doesn't Eat can be modified to take care of all of those things with "only while conscious" and "affects others". You could even make it an Affliction if you wanted, though it's probably not necessary.

Healing wouldn't need Affliction, though you need an enhancement for both self healing and to heal fatigue loss.

Snatch could work, but you're just as likely to end up with something a lot like an apple that only might be compatible with your physiology. You can certainly do that, but I wouldn't rely on it for every meal.

Immunity (fatigue loss from eating/drinking) might even be a better fit, and you can apply the same limitations as above. Effectively this is the same as Doesn't Eat (for the same cost) but it spells out that you're doing it to avoid fatigue loss.

As for cost, I also figured this would be an Alternate Ability or Wildcard ability that you use when you're not doing something else with Create so the cost will be much lower than having those abilities in addition.

Quote:
Namely, Create already works fine as being able to create something someone can ingest (Create Water has all sorts of upsides and one of them is being able to drink it). One of the main things I'm wondering is if I can skip the, say, drinking step altogether as part of just Creating it directly inside (which only means the user without Ranged).
Innate Attack (Water Jet) technically leaves water you can drink as a byproduct, but if you're using it to avoid having to ever drink water I'd still tell you to buy Immunity (Dehydration).
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: Create-ing Internally

I've given it a bit of thought, and I've come to the conclusion of "why not?"

If everyone is willing, the pricing is not abusive, the impact is not unbalancing then go right ahead. I might recommend doing it as a stunt, or say slap a rule-bending Cosmic, Benediction: can create harmless or beneficial substances inside a target, +50%

Maybe +50% for food only, or +300% if you can dispense medicines.
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:23 PM   #30
Plane
 
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Default Re: Create-ing Internally

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you have to hit (Ranged functions as a normal ranged attack) above where your target will be after it falls (presumably next turn since you also need a turn of move to build up momentum).
You'd normally use the "dropping" skill to attack by dropping stuff but I don't know how that's meant to work for stuff like Telekinesis where hands many yards (miles?) away are doing the dropping. Manifesting droppable objects at distance would probably work similarly.

I guess that concern could apply to coordinating the use of ranged weapons like guns too: like how do you get a sighted shot without a direct sightline?

Makes me wonder about using the "just add the ranges" from Affliction: Warp in Psi Powers for broader situation s.
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