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Old 03-30-2022, 06:59 AM   #1
hcobb
 
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Default Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

Scale Weapon Expertise and Mastery so that larger weapons get a bigger cut. (Pun intended.)

And also reduce defend dice by half the number of dice of damage the offending attack does minus the defending weapon dice or shield hits stopped. (round up):

Hence ST 40 giant's "spiked club" does 4d+4 and a master fencer attempts to defend with a very fine rapier of 1d+4, that's a three die advantage so it takes two dice off the normally 6 dice super defend. The giant needs to roll his DX of 10 minus 2 for Mastery or adjDX 8 on only 4 dice instead of six.

A Large shield normally stops 2 hits and with Shield Expertise this is 3 hits, so a battleax at 3d has no advantage and the shield defense requires a 4 die roll to hit. (-1 to DX for the Shield Expertise of course.)
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Last edited by hcobb; 03-30-2022 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 03-30-2022, 07:29 AM   #2
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Default Re: Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

It's an interesting idea, Henry, but what is the motivation? Is it realism or game balance?

I don't know much about combat, so I can't speak much on realism. I guess you're figuring that the big ol' battleaxe is hard to parry and so that makes a hit easier, though it seems to me that a failed parry would still blunt the blow somewhat.

In terms of game balance, this would make big guys that much more difficult to fight. There's some sense to that, since I've found that ogres, for instance, are not all that difficult to beat. However, we'd have to keep in mind that this cuts both ways and the high ST PC would gain additional advantages that might screw up the current balance. For instance, the rapier fencer would suddenly have no defend bonus against someone armed with a lowly saber. (A saber is 2d-2 compared to the rapier's 1d, for a difference of one die[1], so that's one die off of the normally 5d roll.)

Of course, there's the additional issue that this is another rule easy to forget in the heat of battle.

[1] If 2d-2 does not count as a one die advantage over a 1d (or 1d+1, due to Fencer talent), then adjust the weapon up as needed.
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Old 03-30-2022, 08:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

It's in dice, but the Rapier with Fencer talent is normally a 5d defend, so facing a saber cuts this down to a 4d defend. (At -1 for Fencer)


When facing big weapons use a big shield with Expertise, as per all of human history.
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Old 03-30-2022, 08:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
It's in dice, but the Rapier with Fencer talent is normally a 5d defend, so facing a saber cuts this down to a 4d defend. (At -1 for Fencer)
Quite right. I meant he loses the additional one die bonus that Fencer gives.

Quote:
When facing big weapons use a big shield with Expertise, as per all of human history.
So, realism is at least part of the reason for this rule.

It's an interesting suggestion.

I suppose that the minimum number of dice is still three for the big galoot -- that is, that this rule only takes away additional dice granted by defend, which is what you meant by "defend dice". Thus, the fencer still has an advantage over the non-fencer, since the galoot rolls four dice against the fencer and only three against the non-fencer.

This has the effect that Defend isn't a viable option for low ST characters in many situations. There's no benefit at all for the (non-Fencer) rapier user to defend against a fighter with a sabre -- though he can still defend against an ST 10 hammer user. In effect, this makes Ax/Mace an even worse choice for the middling ST fighter.

I'm not saying these are bad consequences. Poor Molly and wizards in general are often going to lose the Defend option with either staff or dagger and be that much more fragile. In terms of realism, I think that effect makes sense. An ST 6 dagger wielder surely can't parry a battleaxe effectively (parry in the sense of the Defend option; the Two-Weapons parry option is unchanged by this rule). In terms of game balance, this may be a very big change.
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Old 03-30-2022, 11:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
the Two-Weapons parry option is unchanged by this rule). In terms of game balance, this may be a very big change.
The two weapon parry would still stop four hits from the battleaxe, which would then only need to roll 3/DX to hit.
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Old 03-30-2022, 01:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

Fair enough. I was thinking of the one-handed parry option, not the two-handed.
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Old 03-30-2022, 06:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

Adding 1 per die of damage would make Weapon Expertise more appealing to characters strong enough to wield 3d weapons. As it is, the talent's primary attractions are the defensive benefits.
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Old 03-30-2022, 08:42 PM   #8
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Adding 1 per die of damage would make Weapon Expertise more appealing to characters strong enough to wield 3d weapons. As it is, the talent's primary attractions are the defensive benefits.
Takes ST 13 to achieve 3d and DX 12 and IQ 11 to get weapons expertise. That would be a long term plan, working one's way up from a rapier to a bastard sword (assuming he started with expertise).
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Old 03-31-2022, 07:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

Of course you start with expertise because ST is much cheaper than talents.
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Old 03-31-2022, 09:08 AM   #10
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Weapon Expertise: +1 per die of damage

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Of course you start with expertise because ST is much cheaper than talents.
That's why I focused on starting with expertise, but other character progressions are possible.

A ST 9, DX 12, IQ 11 character with expertise needs 700XP to become ST 13. A ST 13, DX 12, IQ 11 character requires 1500XP to gain expertise.

But, of course, someone might start with the latter character and later realize that expertise would be really good to have (especially given your house rule).

ETA: I've a house rule that the first two talent points can be bought at half-cost, just to encourage character diversity and the early gaining of talents. Thus, the ST 13 character could gain expertise for a cheap 1000XP -- still more than the ST 9 expert needs, but not double.
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