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Old 04-17-2024, 08:59 PM   #1
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Pole Weapons Expertise Question

I can understand the -5DX thrust attack that adds 1 die of damage. This basically gives a pole weapons bonus of 1 die of damage in a jab attack.

However, if coupled with a charge, would that add another die of damage. So, if they declare a thrust attack during a charge, they could add a thrust at the end of the charge at -5DX. I didn't see ITL address this. Charge plus thrust would be +2 die damage.

Part of me wants to say that this combination can't occur but, I think that it could be possible. Doing so at a -5DX makes it tough to do. Who would want to risk losing the charge damage bonus to get a thrust in on it too.
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Old 04-17-2024, 09:24 PM   #2
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Pole Weapons Expertise Question

I would allow it.

DX -5 is a big risk to get the extra die from Shrewd Blow. If they are willing to risk missing on a charge it must be important to get that extra high damage. I like rewarding having talents so, unless I see this get abused, I am good with this.

---

That said, here is an example beginning character:

ST9 DX12 IQ11 Javelin + Weapon Expert(Pole Weapons).

A charge + shrewd blown has an adjDX 7 in order to score 3d-1.
Standing vs charge + shrewd blow hits on adjDX 9 to score 3d-1.

---

Compare the above to this standard 2-handed sword fighter:

ST14 DX10 IQ8 2-handed sword

every turn: adjDX 10 to score 3d-1.

---

The sword many hits more often to do the same damage. The javelin has some advantages: first strike when charging and may carry a shield. The sword has some advantages: hits more (DX10), can do this damage every turn it attack (not only charges).

There is a balance of advantages and disadvantages.
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Old 04-17-2024, 10:32 PM   #3
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Pole Weapons Expertise Question

Points up your ears, Elf, age 20
ST 9, DX 12, IQ 11, MA 14
Talents include: Dancer (mundane), Pole Weapons Expertise, Running, Shield Expertise
Languages: Common, Elvish
Weapon: very fine javelin (1d+2)
Attacks and Damage: Punch (1d-3)
Armor: Small shield stops 2 hits, -2 to be hit with javelin and shield in hand
Equipment: $570 in other gear, hopefully includes clothing

Pointy charges targets to the rear with a shrewd blow whenever possible (adjDX 11, 3d+2 damage) and when engaged uses the expertises to drop enemy adjDX by 2 points in order to disengage before the other side even gets a swing in.

Best of all usually gets a strike in before a flinger can trip him up. (Due to pole weapon charges strike first.)
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Old 04-18-2024, 01:10 AM   #4
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Pole Weapons Expertise Question

I'm struggling mightily here not to make a joke about a pole dancing elf.
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Old 04-18-2024, 06:05 AM   #5
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Pole Weapons Expertise Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
I would allow it.

DX -5 is a big risk to get the extra die from Shrewd Blow. If they are willing to risk missing on a charge it must be important to get that extra high damage. I like rewarding having talents so, unless I see this get abused, I am good with this.

---
I concur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
That said, here is an example beginning character:

ST9 DX12 IQ11 Javelin + Weapon Expert(Pole Weapons).

A charge + shrewd blown has an adjDX 7 in order to score 3d-1.
Standing vs charge + shrewd blow hits on adjDX 9 to score 3d-1.

---
I'm having some trouble resolving "Standing vs charge + shrewd blow hits on adjDX 9 to score 3d-1". The adjDX9 doesn't show up in the conditions below. There is also a +1 damage for Weapons Expertise.

Standing (engaged) would be DX12 with 1d damage.
Standing (engaged) + Shrewd Blow would be adjDX7 with 2d damage.
Charge would be DX12 with 2d damage.
Charge + Shrewd Blow would be adjDX7 with 3d damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
Compare the above to this standard 2-handed sword fighter:

ST14 DX10 IQ8 2-handed sword

every turn: adjDX 10 to score 3d-1.

---

The sword many hits more often to do the same damage. The javelin has some advantages: first strike when charging and may carry a shield. The sword has some advantages: hits more (DX10), can do this damage every turn it attack (not only charges).

There is a balance of advantages and disadvantages.
I concur.

Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 04-18-2024 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 04-18-2024, 06:06 AM   #6
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Pole Weapons Expertise Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN View Post
So, if they declare a thrust attack during a charge, they could add a thrust at the end of the charge at -5DX.
Yes, the damage bonuses stack. But, the Shrewd Thrust DX penalty might make the Pole Weapon Expertís attack occur after other polearm attacks, which could well mean that the attack is never made at all.
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Old 04-18-2024, 06:07 AM   #7
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Pole Weapons Expertise Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
I'm struggling mightily here not to make a joke about a pole dancing elf.
You just had to go there, didn't you? LOL!
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Old 04-18-2024, 06:08 AM   #8
Bill_in_IN
 
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Location: Indiana
Default Re: Pole Weapons Expertise Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Yes, the damage bonuses stack. But, the Shrewd Thrust DX penalty might make the Pole Weapon Expert’s attack occur after other polearm attacks, which could well mean that the attack is never made at all.
Great catch and Good point.

Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 04-18-2024 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 04-18-2024, 06:18 AM   #9
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Pole Weapons Expertise Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Points up your ears, Elf, age 20
ST 9, DX 12, IQ 11, MA 14
Talents include: Dancer (mundane), Pole Weapons Expertise, Running, Shield Expertise
Languages: Common, Elvish
Weapon: very fine javelin (1d+2)
Attacks and Damage: Punch (1d-3)
Armor: Small shield stops 2 hits, -2 to be hit with javelin and shield in hand
Equipment: $570 in other gear, hopefully includes clothing

Pointy charges targets to the rear with a shrewd blow whenever possible (adjDX 11, 3d+2 damage) and when engaged uses the expertises to drop enemy adjDX by 2 points in order to disengage before the other side even gets a swing in.

Best of all usually gets a strike in before a flinger can trip him up. (Due to pole weapon charges strike first.)
Even though an elf with pole weapons seems a bit odd, this looks like an interesting character build. I have experimented with the shield expertise combination and it does help the survivability of a lightly armored character. Getting a better chance of the first strike helps much.
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Old 04-18-2024, 08:49 AM   #10
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Pole Weapons Expertise Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Points up your ears, Elf, age 20
ST 9, DX 12, IQ 11, MA 14
Talents include: Dancer (mundane), Pole Weapons Expertise, Running, Shield Expertise
Languages: Common, Elvish
Weapon: very fine javelin (1d+2)
Attacks and Damage: Punch (1d-3)
Armor: Small shield stops 2 hits, -2 to be hit with javelin and shield in hand
Equipment: $570 in other gear, hopefully includes clothing

Pointy charges targets to the rear with a shrewd blow whenever possible (adjDX 11, 3d+2 damage) and when engaged uses the expertises to drop enemy adjDX by 2 points in order to disengage before the other side even gets a swing in.

Best of all usually gets a strike in before a flinger can trip him up. (Due to pole weapon charges strike first.)

A couple of corrections:

A javelin is a 1d-1 weapon, so a "very fine" javelin would be 1d+1, not 1d+2.

Only bladed weapons may be "very fine". I don't consider javelins as bladed. Spears yes, but javelins no. You may rule differently.

My point was comparing the figures, not the equipment. BTW, a 2-handed sword may be very fine. And yes a figure with a 2-handed sword may also attack from the rear. So, not necessary for a figure comparison.
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