Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Because such things as Powerstones with base Power 20 (or 15 in Low Mana). are possible (probably inevitable given the Critical success rules). Those Powerstones do recharge in Low Mana.

You snipped out the clarifing point:
"By standard rules, barring special conditions, no mana based magic item functions in no mana. So why note it? The only reason that makes sense ithe Powerstone does recharge (and perhaps even function) in low mana areas. "

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by maximara

You snipped out the clarifing point:
"By standard rules, barring special conditions, no mana based magic item functions in no mana. So why note it? The only reason that makes sense ithe Powerstone does recharge (and perhaps even function) in low mana areas. "

Powerstones _do_ function in Low Mana areas if their base Power is 20 (15 in Low Mana).

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Powerstones _do_ function in Low Mana areas if their base Power is 20 (15 in Low Mana).

You keep avoiding the keystone of my argument:

*By standard rules, barring special conditions, no mana based magic item functions in no mana
*Powerstone expressly states that in No mana (None) a Powerstone doesn't recharge (None)

Why have this piece of superfluous text? The only reason that would be there is if powerstones do NOT follow the normal rules with regards to mana level.

Proof this is the case:
*The Mana Vortex quirk paradox
a mana based magic item that creates a no mana field including on itself still functions...by creates the no mana field The only way this quirk makes any sense is if powerstones do NOT follow the normal rules with regards to mana level.
*Power 15 Powerstone w/Mana Pool 1 in low mana or Power 15 Powerstone w/Mana Pool 2 in no mana paradox.
For the Mana Pool quirk to function the Power must be 15. But which comes first: the true local mana level or the mana level that the quirk produces? If the second than this highly desired quirk is only slightly better than Classic Charge Powerstone. The only way that this quirk is as valuable as Magic Items 1 indicates it is is the quirk comes before the Power ie B]powerstones do NOT follow the normal rules with regards to mana level[/B].

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by maximara

You keep avoiding the keystone of my argument:

*By standard rules, barring special conditions, no mana based magic item functions in no mana
*Powerstone expressly states that in No mana (None) a Powerstone doesn't recharge (None)

Why have this piece of superfluous text? The only reason that would be there is if powerstones do NOT follow the normal rules with regards to mana level.

Proof this is the case:
*The Mana Vortex quirk paradox
a mana based magic item that creates a no mana field including on itself still functions...by creates the no mana field The only way this quirk makes any sense is if powerstones do NOT follow the normal rules with regards to mana level.
*Power 15 Powerstone w/Mana Pool 1 in low mana or Power 15 Powerstone w/Mana Pool 2 in no mana paradox.
For the Mana Pool quirk to function the Power must be 15. But which comes first: the true local mana level or the mana level that the quirk produces? If the second than this highly desired quirk is only slightly better than Classic Charge Powerstone. The only way that this quirk is as valuable as Magic Items 1 indicates it is is the quirk comes before the Power ie B]powerstones do NOT follow the normal rules with regards to mana level[/B].

You are assuming that

-a rules being repeated in a "superfluous" way implies there must be an hidden special case.
I actually agree with you, but not because of that reasoning.

-the mana pool would work in no-mana (the text in MI 1 said it has never been tried with a know level 2, and the mana vortex text say a mana pool don't work inside a vortex no-mana zone )

-the quirqed powerstone create the Mana Vortex.
I always understood a Mana Vortex was an enchanting accident.
You fail, and you get a mana vortex anchored on the stone you were enchanting.
That stone is no longer a magic item, just the anchor for a no-mana zone.
Note that the text mention that "a" powerstone inside the vortex is drained, not "the" powerstone.

---

That said, I never used a "power" level for Powerstone.
They interact with mana level according to the recharging time table, and ignore the generic "power level 15" rule
Yes, I know the rules said "all" magic items have a power level. Well, as far as I am concerned, powerstone are an exception.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by maximara

Why have this piece of superfluous text?

As likely as anything the writer was being "Captain Obvious" that day i.e. explicitly stating what everyone should have already figured out.

If you were correct the Powers That Be have had 35 years to explain that Powerstones are a special case. I consider the fact that they have never done so just one more reason why your convoluted logic is false.

Indeed the special case being explained is that Powerstones function differently in different Mana levels even if their Power level is curently 15+.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

You are assuming that
-the mana pool would work in no-mana (the text in MI 1 said it has never been tried with a know level 2, and the mana vortex text say a mana pool don't work inside a vortex no-mana zone )

-the quirqed powerstone create the Mana Vortex.
I always understood a Mana Vortex was an enchanting accident.
You fail, and you get a mana vortex anchored on the stone you were enchanting.
That stone is no longer a magic item, just the anchor for a no-mana zone.
Note that the text mention that "a" powerstone inside the vortex is drained, not "the" powerstone.

---

That said, I never used a "power" level for Powerstone.
They interact with mana level according to the recharging time table, and ignore the generic "power level 15" rule
Yes, I know the rules said "all" magic items have a power level. Well, as far as I am concerned, powerstone are an exception.

Well not all magic items. Magic items built as gadget advantages don't have a spell Power level either. They just have this Mana Sensitive limitation that is a -5 to skill in Low mana, doesn't work in No mana.

So a Powerstone built as Energy Reserve (Mana Sensitive w some other limitations) gadget would work in a low mana area.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

As likely as anything the writer was being "Captain Obvious" that day i.e. explicitly stating what everyone should have already figured out.

If you were correct the Powers That Be have had 35 years to explain that Powerstones are a special case. I consider the fact that they have never done so just one more reason why your convoluted logic is false.

The Powers That Be have had 23 years to fix this poorly worded errata:

"P. 51. Since Caithness is a low-mana area, the example given for the number of people to know spells is wrong. 1 in 50 might know a spell or two in a high-mana area, 1 in 100 in a normal-mana area, 1 in 500 in a low-mana area. Perhaps half these people possess Magical Aptitude. Of course, some people with Magical Aptitude, especially in low-mana areas, will never learn magic or even become aware of their talent."

The way that is worded it effectively says of the 1 in 100 people in a normal mana area and 1 in 500 people in a low-mana area only half these people have Magical Aptitude (magery). Why would any non mage who odds are would spend their life in the low to normal mana area they were born in learn a spell?!

More over corrections that appear in later books have not appeared as errata for the earlier books. The way Partial Limited Magery works case in point.

How GURPS update handles knacks is another example Instead of the convoluted (and time consuming) method of writing up a spells as a power just do this:

Magery 2 (-70%: One-Spell Magery, -80%; No Spell Prerequisites, +30%; No Magic Item Sensitivity, -20%) [8] and (adjusting One-Spell Magery accordingly +5% for each spell above one) buy up each spell to 15 using IQ 10. Each (H) spell is [18] and each VH spell is [22]

So 3 (H) Knacks would be Magery 2 (-60%: One-Spell Magery, -80%; No Spell Prerequisites, +30%; No Magic Item Sensitivity, -20%; 3 spells, +10%) [10] + 3 x [18] or [64].

Make the GM's life easier by keeping it simple.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by maximara

Well not all magic items. Magic items built as gadget advantages don't have a spell Power level either. They just have this Mana Sensitive limitation that is a -5 to skill in Low mana, doesn't work in No mana.

So a Powerstone built as Energy Reserve (Mana Sensitive w some other limitations) gadget would work in a low mana area.



The Powers That Be have had 23 years to fix this poorly worded errata:

"P. 51. Since Caithness is a low-mana area, the example given for the number of people to know spells is wrong. 1 in 50 might know a spell or two in a high-mana area, 1 in 100 in a normal-mana area, 1 in 500 in a low-mana area. Perhaps half these people possess Magical Aptitude. Of course, some people with Magical Aptitude, especially in low-mana areas, will never learn magic or even become aware of their talent."

The way that is worded it effectively says of the 1 in 100 people in a normal mana area and 1 in 500 people in a low-mana area only half these people have Magical Aptitude (magery). Why would any non mage who odds are would spend their life in the low to normal mana area they were born in learn a spell?!
.

There is another way to interpret that. It would make sense if non mages who know spells aren't evenly distributed. Assume you have one million people in high mana areas, 10 million people in normal mana areas and 5 million people in low mana areas. Thus the low mana areas have 10,000 practicing mages. The normal mana areas have 100,000 practicing mages. But the high mana areas have 10,000 practicing mages, and 120,000 non mages who know a spell. Thus half the the people who know spells are mages.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

There is another way to interpret that. It would make sense if non mages who know spells aren't evenly distributed. Assume you have one million people in high mana areas, 10 million people in normal mana areas and 5 million people in low mana areas. Thus the low mana areas have 10,000 practicing mages. The normal mana areas have 100,000 practicing mages. But the high mana areas have 10,000 practicing mages, and 120,000 non mages who know a spell. Thus half the the people who know spells are mages.

That would work except per the mana map on Barestorm pg 176 sizable high mana area only exist in Sahud (city of Uulinn a seven-acre high-mana tract), the Djinn Lands, the Nomadic Lands, and the King Islands (uninhabited thanks to being infested with ferocious monsters).

More over the areas on the map are relatively small in terms of area to the rest of the continent so unless the people in those areas have a density rivaling that of something like TL7 New York City that doesn't work too well.

Also we need to look at the original wording in Classic Fantasy:
"Perhaps 1 human in 50 might know a spell or two or have a knack in a high-mana area; 1 in 100 in a normal mana area or 1 in 500 in a low-mana region such as Caithness. In a high-mana area, perhaps half of the magic-users will actually possess Magical Aptitude. Of course, some people with Magical Aptitude, especially in low-mana areas, will never learn magic or even become aware of their talent."

Note the "in a low-mana region such as Caithness" was removed and "Perhaps half these people possess Magical Aptitude." added for the errata. So ironically if they can't tried to fix things with the errata there wouldn't be this issue.

More over Classic: Fantasy talks a lot about areas on Yrth being No-mana, low-mana, and normal-mana with only the areas above being mentioned as having high-mana.

[Prince Charon]

I honestly think we've again (with the 'powerstones in low mana' argument) hit an area where clarifications from Kromm or another person who works on the books would be needed to resolve it.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

I honestly think we've again (with the 'powerstones in low mana' argument) hit an area where clarifications from Kromm or another person who works on the books would be needed to resolve it.

There aren't enough people involved for it to be worth Kromm's time. Everybody else can go back to thinking up Powerstone Quirks.

Although I do have to say I've never used Quirks on Powerstones and have rarely used Powerstones period.

They seem to be part of a certain style of gaming that focusses on resource management very tightly at a generally low level of resources. The sort of campaign where a 4 pt Powerstone would be important and the fact that it could only be used by virgins on Tuesday would be worth finding a workaround for..

If I'd introduced something like that into my World of D'y'r't campaign my group would have donated it to a convent in exchange for a quick belessing or two.