[Magical Styles] Creating schools of magic aimed at new GURPS players

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Aside from spells for finding treasure, you could add spells for getting at treasure once you know where it is: Shape Earth and Earth to Air for digging up treasure, Locksmith and Lockmaster for defeating locks protecting treasure, water spells for underwater treasure... it still seems a little over-specialized. But you may have additional ideas.

Water Vision for seeing into pools of stagnant water.
Yeah adding things like Lockmaster to get at the stuff, also Apportation to trip a switch without touching it.
Repair for fixing broken vases so you get a better price.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by KarlKost

I do that by throwing away 90% of the rules. t.

Yep, I recently ran 2 "'one-shot" sessions for Pirates built on 150 pts and from that and previous experience with players who didnt want to get into the rules that there is no way to simplify Gurps through addition. Not by adding templates, not by adding Martial Arts styles and not by adding Magical styles either. You have to subtract.

So if you have an actual newcomer to Gurps you have to explain the Magic system before they start exploring it. I'd start them off by telling them that their character had found "Ye Booke of Comon Spelles" which consists of no more than the spells in the Basic Set and because of the minimum changes between editions this can even be the shorter list of spells in the 3e Basic set.

Then you tell them that their character first tried this simple Spell called "Ignite Fire" and that now they'll never need to carry flint and steel again. Then they moved on to the Spell after that in Ye Booke called "Create Fire".

You do this for at least a couple more spells that everyone should have and then let them fill out there Spell lists from the short lists in Ye Booke.

Note that with that actual newbie you already needed to do this with mundane Skills. You try and start them with a whole template and it'll take a long time and won't be pretty either.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Yep, I recently ran 2 "'one-shot" sessions for Pirates built on 150 pts and from that and previous experience with players who didnt want to get into the rules that there is no way to simplify Gurps through addition. Not by adding templates, not by adding Martial Arts styles and not by adding Magical styles either. You have to subtract.

So if you have an actual newcomer to Gurps you have to explain the Magic system before they start exploring it. I'd start them off by telling them that their character had found "Ye Booke of Comon Spelles" which consists of no more than the spells in the Basic Set and because of the minimum changes between editions this can even be the shorter list of spells in the 3e Basic set.

Then you tell them that their character first tried this simple Spell called "Ignite Fire" and that now they'll never need to carry flint and steel again. Then they moved on to the Spell after that in Ye Booke called "Create Fire".

You do this for at least a couple more spells that everyone should have and then let them fill out there Spell lists from the short lists in Ye Booke.

Note that with that actual newbie you already needed to do this with mundane Skills. You try and start them with a whole template and it'll take a long time and won't be pretty either.

The thing about existing GURPS templates is that they lend themselves to ridiculous combinatorial explosions of possible choices. My ultimate goal here is to create templates so simple that using them is like creating a D&D 5th edition character. Here's a sample subclass-esque lens I created for swordsmen:

Practical Swashbuckling Lens (+24 points)
Perks: Style Familiarity (Practical Swashbuckling) [1]; Sure-Footed (Uneven) [1]; Weapon Adaptation (Saber to Rapier) [1]; Weapon Adaptation (Smallsword to Rapier) [1].
Skills: Acrobatics (H) DX-2 [1]; Jumping (E) DX [1]; Rapier (A) DX+3 [12]; Savoir-Faire (High Society) (E) IQ [1].
Techniques: Feint (Rapier) (H) Rapier+4 [5].
Equipment: Edged rapier ($1000, 3 lbs.); Fine medium leather corselet ($500, 12 lbs.).

I'm not sure the final version of the lens I'd use in my game will be exactly like that, but it gives you an idea. Note that the equipment line is for a TL4 game with $2000 starting wealth and $500 budgeted for a ranged weapon and general traveler's gear.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

The thing about existing GURPS templates is that they lend themselves to ridiculous combinatorial explosions of possible choices. My ultimate goal here is to create templates so simple that using them is like creating a D&D 5th edition character. Hr.

I did that 5e thing last Saturday and it's not particularly easy even when informed by lots of previous study of the PHB.

As fro your Template/Lens it might nto annoy a newbie the way it annoys me but some of that is that I know that Jumping at DX is useless.

I also wouldn't take your Weapon Adaptations even if they are theoretical bargains. The chnces that I couldn't get a Saber of a Smallsword if my Edged Rapier became unavailable are far too high. If I was going to dump pts into some back up weapon (and as starting character I probably wouldn't) it'd be something _really_ common like Broadsword or even Spear.

Even the Sure-Footed looks more like an advanced bennie to round off a broadly skilled Master rather than a starting character.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

As fro your Template/Lens it might nto annoy a newbie the way it annoys me but some of that is that I know that Jumping at DX is useless.

I also wouldn't take your Weapon Adaptations even if they are theoretical bargains. The chnces that I couldn't get a Saber of a Smallsword if my Edged Rapier became unavailable are far too high. If I was going to dump pts into some back up weapon (and as starting character I probably wouldn't) it'd be something _really_ common like Broadsword or even Spear.

Even the Sure-Footed looks more like an advanced bennie to round off a broadly skilled Master rather than a starting character.

These are fair points, though in the case of Jumping I partly included it because various GURPS books occasionally seem to suggest that not every Jumping roll can be replaced with DX. But maybe I should ignore any text that seems to suggest that and remove Jumping. Though that's sort of beside the point of this thread, except insofar as it illustrates the kind of thing I want to do is hard to get right, and in fact probably harder to get right for magical styles than it is for martial arts styles.

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

These are fair points, though in the case of Jumping I partly included it because various GURPS books occasionally seem to suggest that not every Jumping roll can be replaced with DX. But maybe I should ignore any text that seems to suggest that and remove Jumping. Though that's sort of beside the point of this thread, except insofar as it illustrates the kind of thing I want to do is hard to get right, and in fact probably harder to get right for magical styles than it is for martial arts styles.

Im wouldnt put in perks, quirks, none of that. For newcomers to Gurps I remove ANY of that minutia, which I found that only brings unnecessary complications. So, if I were you I would ask "wanna be a Necro-guy?" Stamped a "One College Only" and call it a day, and I would go away with all the "style familiarity" and "secret spells" perks altogheter. Let them browse the book of spells if they. When your necro-guy place the eyes on "ressurection", you let his mentor tell him "sorry, I do not know that spell", and after a little insistence, tell him "that's a secret of the masters, you'll have to prove them that you are ready" and that's it. No need to add unnecessary complications.

If you want simply to suck up a few of their points, reduce their starting points, or simply charge more for Magery; if this is a matter of balancing non mages at the table, just add a 5 CPs UB on mages.

If, instead of common tropes like "Necromancer", "Illusionist" or "Oracle" you want more of different secret society groups that each have a bunch of randomly selected specials, just go with Path or Book magic, design the weirdness of each one of those societies - they kiss each others butts as a secret shake, they have to drink monkeys' pee as initiation ritual, whatever - and bam, now you're in, take that book and read it 100 times, congratz, now go off practice "ye book of ye commen spells" of the society of the arkanister of the magic lake on living (preferably) non human targets.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

T GURPS books occasionally seem to suggest that not every Jumping roll can be replaced with DX.

I'm pretty sure that all Jumping Rolls can be replaced by Acrobatics and even though Acrobtics is much more expensive it has a much more useful role. You don't get the option of replacing Basic Move w/1/2 Jumping Skill but it's a peculiar build where that works very well.

[Michael Thayne]

Okay, here's my attempt to create a "Physicker" style, for a TL4 setting with TL5 medicine. The focus is on healing spells but it also has a number of harmful spells as "reversed" healing spells. A couple radiation spells are included for use in post-apocalyptic settings:

Style Prerequisite: Magery 1 (not One College Only).
Required Skills: Diagnosis/TL4; Physician/TL5; Poisons/TL4.
Required Spells: Itch; Lend Energy; Sense Life; Test Food.
Perks: Better Healing Enchantments; Intuitive Cantrip (Aid or Magical Analysis); Limited Energy Reserve 1-5; Secret Spell (Disinfect or Resuscitate).
Secret Spells: Disinfect (Artillery Spells, p. 17); Resuscitate (Death Spells, p. 14).

First-Degree Spells

Stylists must learn all of the following:

Itch                Lend Energy         Sense Life
Test Food

Second-Degree Spells

A stylist who knows all four first-degree spells can learn the following spells in any order:

Body-Reading        Detect Poison       Forgetfulness
Neutralize Poison   Purify Water        Recover Energy
Share Energy        Spasm

Third-Degree Spells

A stylist who knows at least four second-degree spells (a total of eight spells, with first-degree spells) gains access to the following spells:

Awaken              Instant Neutralize Poison
Madness             Minor Healing       Pain
Purify Food         Relieve Addiction   Relieve Sickness
Remove Contagion    Resist Disease      Resist Pain
Resist Poison       Restore Memory      Share Vitality
Stop Bleeding       Stop Spasm          Strike Dumb

Fourth-Degree Spells

A stylist who knows at least eight third-degree spells (a total of sixteen spells, with lower degree spells) gains access to the following spells:

Cure Disease        Deathtouch          Drunkenness
Healing Slumber     Major Healing       Nauseate
Paralyze Limb       Regeneration        Relieve Paralysis
Restoration         Restore Hearing     Restore Sight
Restore Speech      Resuscitate         Retch
Sickness            Stop Paralysis      Strike Barren
Strike Blind        Strike Deaf         Strike Numb
Suspended Animation Total Paralysis     Wither Limb

Fifth-Degree Spells

A stylist who knows at least eight fourth-degree spells (a total of twenty-four spells, with lower degree spells) gains access to the following spells:

Cleansing           Cure Radiation       Disinfect
Great Healing       Instant Regeneration Instant Restoration
Relieve Madness

Edit: Fiddled with the skills a bit.

[Michael Thayne]

Trying to come up with the best selection of three magical perks to include in a "Physicker" lens that isn't too generic. Intuitive Cantrip (Magical Analysis) seems like an easy choice given that it synergizes well with Detect Poison and Body-Reading. Magical Styles also has Intuitive Cantrip (Aid), which is basically Accessory (First Aid Kit). Given that I've already decided to make Physician a required skill for the style, I could upgrade that to something that functions as Accessory (Medical Gear, i.e. basic equipment for Physician). Not sure if that makes sense to treat as a second level of the Aid perk, or if it would include Aid, much as Physician includes First Aid. If it does include Aid, maybe the third perk would be another Intuitive Cantrip that acts as surgical gear?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Okay, here's my attempt to create a "Physicker" style, for a TL4 setting with TL5 medicine. .

Um, perhaps you could speak to _why_ you did this the way you did? I don't want to criticize it when you may have had something in mind completely different from my expectations but it's not at all what I would have expected if I asked "What do I have to do to learn some healing spells?".

In particular I think of the way some people complain about having to learn prereqs but you've roughly doubled the number of spells to learn even Minor Healing and then put 7 more spells between Minor and Major Healing.

Also, requiring _everyone_ to learn Itch looks like you think they have too many pts to play with.

But perhaps you had something else in mind.