05-27-2022, 11:29 AM | #51 | |||||
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
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[quote]This is probably more sanity protecting to you, as well. {snip - sanity, ramifications, and concerns for playability and fun} Thank you for your comments on these topics. I have these all well in hand. Would you have anything concrete to share on modeling in GURPS that light surfing capability that will pierce the light lag problem? Quote:
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Joseph Paul |
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05-27-2022, 11:46 AM | #52 | |
Join Date: Apr 2022
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
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If not, why not? That's what I'm getting at. Who'd set sail to uncharted waters without the notion that they can survive it? Would they have sailed to uncharted waters in a makeshift raft and a single loaf of bread? If not, why not? >sounds like wish fulfillment Well if I am reading the rules for Warp correctly there's merely a penalty for indirect viewing too. Like seeing a place through a TV screen. If the player visualizes the destination then they arrive there if they make the roll. >Do you have something that pierces light lag problems Yeah, the stuff you snipped out because you have it in hand. |
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05-27-2022, 12:14 PM | #53 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
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I mean, I'd be disinclined to handle Warp this way, but I could see it having some potentially interesting effects. Unless there's some way to detect distant Warps at FTL speeds, however, it seems like the planet-cracking frogs would still be an issue, they just need more jumps to reach their destination.
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05-27-2022, 12:43 PM | #54 |
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
I suspect that my starting point is not in the right place when I check it.
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Joseph Paul |
05-27-2022, 01:25 PM | #55 | |
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
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You're 30,000 light-years from home. The night sky is going to be that of the planet you're on, that you probably haven't been to before. The stars that make up the constellations you're familiar with will still be there and may even be visible to you, but the constellations won't be because the relative positions of the stars have changed. If you're on a planetary surface you don't even know which galactic direction you're looking in, barring maybe being able to use Andromeda, the Magellanic Clouds and possibly one or two more galaxies to establish general galactic direction, if they're even visible. You don't even necessarily have a guarantee that you're in the same N/S hemisphere relative to the destination planet that you were in on the originating planet. The night sky may be the one that should have the Southern Cross rather than the Big Dipper in it. I think you'd have your dirty muckle to even locate where Sol is (30,000 years ago), much less determine that it should be somewhere else. |
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05-27-2022, 01:45 PM | #56 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
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Also, you're going to have noticed this aspect of your Warp ability quite some time ago. Do you suppose this 60,000 light year Warp is the first Warp the character has ever done? Warp to Mars, stay there for a bit, then Warp back... and find your watch is about half an hour fast. Well, that's odd, let's see what happens if you just Warp to Mars, then come back immediately... at which point you meet yourself from half an hour ago, and now we're dealing with a time travel campaign.
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05-27-2022, 03:21 PM | #57 | ||
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
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>sounds like wish fulfillment Well if I am reading the rules for Warp correctly there's merely a penalty for indirect viewing too. Like seeing a place through a TV screen. If the player visualizes the destination then they arrive there if they make the roll.[/quote] Does it need to be a live feed or will a static stock shot do? How about a post card? I find the indirect viewing to be problematic as well and included for replicating settings where the original author of a literary work used it. I am not inclined to do so. Quote:
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05-27-2022, 03:27 PM | #58 | |
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
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Joseph Paul |
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05-27-2022, 04:27 PM | #59 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
The key difference is in how you define your target.
If you define your targets by "place", then teleport works pretty much like it does in most stories, when it works it takes you to that place in some narrative sense in survivable way. This is the power you are *paying for* with Warp, or the Teleport spell. If it doesn't do this, that's fine, but it needs to come with a limitation. If you define it by direction and distance, then it can't fail to bring you to the correct star because you can't aim at stars (or any other particular "place") anyway. Only at a direction and distance. This version doesn't do stuff like match ground levels, or local velocities or anything else and is likely to kill you accidentally if you are a little bit out. It may very well kill you if you use it to teleport into an atmosphere, since lacking any way of determining what is at the other end it can't very well lock on what's there to swap it with you, so if there's any significant amount of matter there, you presumably interpenetrate with it and explode. You are also going to need to take into account all kinds of other stuff other than the proper motion of the target - momentum conservation, materializing inside occupied space, relativistic effects (what happens when you teleport somewhere in different gravity where *sizes* are not the same) all that other stuff that basically makes teleporting an exercise in physics you will probably never be able to capture all the possible consequences of. It's a lot of work to make the power into something nobody will use as anything other than a plot device. And if you are going to have reliable workarounds that make the power useful, then in the end it just converts it back to the first useful form when those workarounds function. I'd think about just adding "Requires skill roll" and a rule that failure is one of the many possible lethal off target accidents and just skip the lot of work.
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05-27-2022, 07:21 PM | #60 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Extreme warp and light lag
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You'll also see the same effect, but on a much shorter timescale, with shorter jumps. The first test Warp to Alpha Centuri returns 8 years before it leaves. That's not so long that there's no civilization, and not so long that you can't just leave a note for yourself (or your bosses) to introduce all the usual time-travel paradoxes. At some point, there was probably some researcher trying to measure Warp time to see if it was instantaneous, light speed, or some slower rate, so they did a test with an atomic clock, laser interferometry, or other tech tricks, able to measure a loss of time even with short jumps remaining on Earth. Seems like a cure worse than the disease. |
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