heroic archer + extra attack 1

[Boge]

Why do some give archers Acute Vision?

[Kalzazz]

Due to high expenditure on bow skill, and often neat things like Heroic Archer and magic bows, sometimes the limiting factor in an archers ability to hit the enemy is knowing the enemy exists to be hit to begin with

[johndallman]

Also, the Tracer Eyes perk, from p41 of Tactical Shooting, is thoroughly applicable to bowfire, and requires Acute Vision.

[simply Nathan]

It makes you way better for hit and run tactics of the type archer characters are best known for using in videogames and comics, due to letting you ignore the Bulk penalties while moving and attacking. You can also get a lot of Acc bonuses in magical cinematic games.

[Boge]

Why would I want Heroic Archer over +5 skill?

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Boge

Why would I want Heroic Archer over +5 skill?

Sometimes a GM will say "No, you can't have another +5 to Bow skill just because you have points for it."

I'd say Bow-15 with Heroic Archer is better than raw Bow-20 unless you're exclusively going to be a sniper and not involved in the more typical adventurer-relevant skirmish combat.

[mlangsdorf]

Heroic Archer allows for Move and Attacks at full skill, which is better than skill+5 - Bulk for every bow weapon, and Heroic Archer is even better if you're also doing a quick load at the same time.

The ability to run past the enemy line while firing arrows into unshielded backs and flanks is a really great trick, as is the ability to shoot while running away from a foe who has gotten too close.

[Boge]

The move and fire I can see. However, you can't move at full speed while "strafing" around an enemy, if you will. I would have to have a move of like 10 to be able to run directly away from an enemy and be able to keep turning around to fire every turn. I can't run backwards 6-7 hexes.

Running behind them, yeah, I can see that as an advantage. Quick load? Do you mean the first roll of Quick Shooting? If so, Heroic Archer only halves the penalty, so that's equivalent to a +3 on your roll, which +5 bow would obviously be better.

Close combat, yeah, but anyone that wants to fight in close combat isn't going to be using a bow.

Fast draw bonus for Multiple Fast Draw...I already have Weapon Master Bow, so Heroic Archer would only give me another 1 for that...I don't plan to multiple fast draw multiple times per turn.

And the points, it's 20 points, so it's taken me, probably 6 sessions to get those points. With our rulings, I can easily get +5 bow in 6 sessions.

Anything else I'm missing? Are there techniques, advantages, or other that require Heroic Archer rather than Trained by a Master or Weapon Mastery?

[Bruno]

If you're not going to be moving around, then you enjoy the full ACC of your weapon without Aiming, which is about a +3 skill bonus. If you're going to be moving around, you're avoiding the bulk penalty, which is more.

Fast Draw is not Bow - 5 levels of Bow gives you no benefit to Fast Draw. So you'll need 3 levels of Fast Draw, which is cutting 12 points out of your pool of points to spend on Bow.

Originally Posted by Boge

Close combat, yeah, but anyone that wants to fight in close combat isn't going to be using a bow.

That changes when you have Heroic Archer - that's the point. You can now use a bow in close combat - your best skill (Which is likely ludicrous compared to most melee skills, due to working against the range penalty) and your tricked out weapon. Instead of having to drop it and draw some secondary weapon, which you don't have a 20 skill in.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Boge

The move and fire I can see. However, you can't move at full speed while "strafing" around an enemy, if you will. I would have to have a move of like 10 to be able to run directly away from an enemy and be able to keep turning around to fire every turn. I can't run backwards 6-7 hexes.

Even moving 3 hexes backwards can be enough to put you of Step and Attack range, forcing your opponent to switch to Committed Attack, All-Out Attack, or Move and Attack, with all the resulting disadvantages.

If you move in a kind of J motion (4 hexes N, 1 hex NE, 1 hex SE, repeated indefinitely) your opponent has to move 5 hexes every turn to keep pace with you. It's not something I'd normally recommend because it moves you away from your allies, but it's perfectly legal and valid if you have to do it.

Originally Posted by Boge

Running behind them, yeah, I can see that as an advantage. Quick load? Do you mean the first roll of Quick Shooting? If so, Heroic Archer only halves the penalty, so that's equivalent to a +3 on your roll, which +5 bow would obviously be better.

You can only count that +5 bonus against one set of penalties, though. As penalties stack up, it becomes less valuable.

That is to say, if you nock and fire in the same turn, with Heroic Archer you're either rolling:
Move and Attack: Skill -3
Step and Attack: Skill -3 + Acc

trading Heroic Archer for +5 skill, you're either rolling
Move and Attack: Skill +5 -6 - Bulk
Step and Attack: Skill +5 -6

Heroic Archer is strictly better than +5 skill if you plan to Move and Attack, and is likely better for Step and Attacks if you have at least +2 Acc on your Bow. assuming you want to fire every second. If you also have Weapon Master (Bow), Heroic Archer only becomes better with a +3 Acc Bow, but that's fairly easy to achieve.

Plus all the stuff Bruno pointed out about close combat and fast-draw.