Secret/Hidden Doors

[Saabre]

I'm wondering what skill is used to find secret doors. I hadn't seen skill that specifically stated it was used to find secret doors, but Search says it is used to find hidden items in containers which implies it finds hidden compartments which would be similar to hidden doors. However, one of my players seems to be using the Traps skill to find hidden doors as that's the skill he rolls every time he says he is looking for secret doors.

[Witchking]

It depends...

I would probably give Search a chance to find "the odd wear track in the carpet that leads to a blank wall" or "the wall switch that doesn't seem to do anything in this room"
or "the rock discolored by grease from many fingers".

I would also probably give Architecture a good chance to notice (with some time and obersvation) that "there seems to be an awful lot of square footage inside the four exterior walls that are not accounted for in the observed rooms."
Of course that (on a good roll) might get you a "where" the room "might" be...but nothing really on how to get in...for that see skill #1 above.

Dunno my back of the envelope GM anwser...

But not Traps...not really IMHO...thats more like looking for and avoiding trigger mechanisms...

[GodlessRose]

This is answered in the "(Unofficial) FAQ of the GURPS Fora", the sticky thread at the top.

[Saabre]

Originally Posted by Witchking

But not Traps...not really IMHO...thats more like looking for and avoiding trigger mechanisms...

I felt pretty strongly this way too, but Kromm says otherwise.

Not sure I completely agree with that though. I don't see much of a difference between a secret compartment in your steamer trunk or trunk of your car and the secret compartment on the wall in your office to hide your safe. However, I'll most likely go with this ruling for consistency since my player was most likely assuming this.

So, if not Search, what skill would you use when digging through stuff to see if anything is useful? It's a dungeon situation and there are more than one place where there is stuff to be found that is buried in muck, piles of bones, piles of broken equipment, etc. I'd been planning on having the skill be Search, but it sounds like that wouldn't be the right skill. Would it be just a pure Perception check?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Witchking

But not Traps...not really IMHO...thats more like looking for and avoiding trigger mechanisms...

Which is actually why Traps. The triggers for a secret door aren't fundamentally different from the ones for a trap.

[Saabre]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Which is actually why Traps. The triggers for a secret door aren't fundamentally different from the ones for a trap.

This is the same thing Kromm said, but I honestly don't see it. Traps is pressure plates, trip wires, and tripping mechanisms inside locks and such for the vast majority of traps (at least at TL 3) while secret doors is mostly hidden buttons (most often not in places you would be looking for traps, for example, where yours hands and feet would be when passing through/opening a portal) and camouflaged doorways. Granted camouflage applies to traps as well since you're gonna want to camouflage the pressure plates and what not, but I still see major differences in searching for traps and searching for secret passages/panels.

[Lord Carnifex]

Also, AD&D First edition makes a useful distinction between secret doors (ones thant are built to stay camoflauged even if you know where they are) and concealed doors (ones that are obvious when revealed, like an ordinary trap door underneath a rug). The latter, concealable doors, are probably not Traps skill and might as well be an ordinary Perception roll.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Saabre

This is the same thing Kromm said, but I honestly don't see it. Traps is pressure plates, trip wires, and tripping mechanisms inside locks and such for the vast majority of traps (at least at TL 3) while secret doors is mostly hidden buttons (most often not in places you would be looking for traps, for example, where yours hands and feet would be when passing through/opening a portal) and camouflaged doorways.

A pressure plate is a big hidden button in the floor. A trap door trap is a camouflaged doorway in the floor.

[Saabre]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

A pressure plate is a big hidden button in the floor. A trap door trap is a camouflaged doorway in the floor.

Yes, and I already mentioned there was some similarity which this instance would specifically fall into.

Originally Posted by Saabre

...and camouflaged doorways. Granted camouflage applies to traps as well since you're gonna want to camouflage the pressure plates and what not, ...

But that still leaves a lot that isn't similar.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Saabre

So, if not Search, what skill would you use when digging through stuff to see if anything is useful?

Scrounging, Scrounging, Scrounging.