Create unique Skills based on other Skills and different attributes.

[Armin]

Originally Posted by Angel Darkover

The solution is pretty simple - you need the change the base skill name to include a name extension.

This is why I love the forums for help. A lovely, simple solution, and I don't think it would have occurred to me at all.

Thanks, and thanks for mentioning the caveats.

[Angel Darkover]

You are quite welcome, good sir.

It did make me think, for GCA5, it might be helpful to add a tag like defaultbase() (obviously the name can change). The idea is simply a yes/no tag that allows or disallows a skill to be used as a default. If the tag is not included, the "yes" state is assumed, but in those rare cases where a skill (like specific skill extensions, optional specialties, divergent stat-based skills, or some such) should not be used to provide a default to anything else, this tag would solve the issue nicely through the data file without needing to edit the defaulting skill after adding it to the character. Just a thought.

[Armin]

Originally Posted by Armin

This is why I love the forums for help. A lovely, simple solution, and I don't think it would have occurred to me at all.

Ahhh, I'm forgetful. We do have a system in place that may also help with the whole issue regarding "Soldier" not having a name extension.

We have the ident() and countasneed() system, which allows you to have traits identify themselves as part of some arbitrary 'needs' group. Then countasneed() will *only* allow a trait to be counted as satisfying a prerequisite if the requesting item has a qualifying ident().

So...

With the Soldier (Situational Awareness - Per Based) skill, and its pals, you'd include an ident(Soldier) tag.

Then you'd include a line in the file to add countasneed(Soldier) to the base Soldier skill, like so:

#MergeTags in "SK:Soldier" with "countasneed(Soldier)"

That way, only plain old Soldier should be counted as satisfying the need, and only plain old Soldier should get added.

It's a bit more work, but it may do the job.

HOWEVER, because I'm unable to reproduce the issue you're seeing, where extra points get added to the existing item rather than Soldier being added to the character, I can't guarantee this will work without it being tested a bit more. I know the system works, we use it a lot in DFRPG, but I'm not sure if it works exactly as expected with the 'add a needs item to the character' bit.

Caveat: This would result in any such countasneed() tagged traits *not* satisfying other, more normal prereqs. Soooooo that's a big caveat, too.

[Armin]

Originally Posted by Angel Darkover

It did make me think, for GCA5, it might be helpful to add a tag like defaultbase() (obviously the name can change). The idea is simply a yes/no tag that allows or disallows a skill to be used as a default. If the tag is not included, the "yes" state is assumed, but in those rare cases where a skill (like specific skill extensions, optional specialties, divergent stat-based skills, or some such) should not be used to provide a default to anything else, this tag would solve the issue nicely through the data file without needing to edit the defaulting skill after adding it to the character. Just a thought.

Yeah, GCA5 added the ability to nullify defaulting entirely (DFRPG doesn't do defaults), but I don't recall running across a situation like this where a whole system was being built to offer skills that were only defaults, with different bases, and disallowing improving from default.

Yes, I can see that your 'no defaulting from me' tag could be useful in some situations, so it's probably worth adding.

I'm not sure that it would actually solve the whole issue here, though. We're seeing an interaction of needing to default from one skill but not others, and also needing to add one skill but not others through the needs() system, and the needs() system doesn't care about defaults at all.

GCA5 added a system to allow for more complex defaults, and that might help, but it's not battle tested yet.

A tag to disallow point spending might also be helpful. I think the system KataH hit on to use the N/A skills was a great solution for this application, but such a tag would allow for keeping the IQ/H or DX/H or whatever types available for reference.

Probably some other useful things to be mined from this project for general improvements in GCA later.

[KataH]

Armin
Thanks for all the information - I am afraid I bit off more than I can chew.
Turns out there are far more '"Divergent' skills then I thought and the level of complication from the effects of certain traits that affect groups added a level of complexity that I did not anticipate. Oh well, on to my next project (should have stated this over 10 years ago).

[Armin]

I'm sorry that didn't go as planned. I hope your next project goes better!

[KataH]

It already has. Thanks again.....

[KataH]

Armin
One last question, yeah right like it will be my last.
I created a User Item that was working at one time. I must have done something to the code that now prevents it from loading. Please ake a look at this:

"Survival Kit (%Terrain% (TL5))",basecost(50),baseweight(20),familiarities(),mods(Equipment),page(B288, HT58 (Most detailed info)), precountcost(50),precountweight(20),techlvl(5),tl(5),usernotes(),conditional(+0 to "SK:Survival (%Terrain%)", description(Basic equipment for Survival skill for a group. Cook pot, rope, hatchet, etc., for 3-8 campers.), cat(High-Tech, High-Tech - Equipment, _Equipment, _Equipment - High-Tech, High-Tech - Equipment Camping and Survival, _Camping and _Camping and Survival, _Camping and Survival - High-Tech, High-Tech - Camping and Survival),_
	x(_
	#ChoiceList(_
			name(Terrain),_
			title(Survival Kit: Choose a Terrain),_
			text(You must specialize by a particular terrain type: (See Survial B223-224) from this list:),_
			picksallowed(1),_
			method(bynumber),_
			list(_
				Arctic,_
				Desert,_
				Island/Beach,_
				Jungle,_
				Mountain,_
				Plains,_
				Swampland,_
				Woodlands,_
				Bank,_
				Deeo Ocean Vent,_
				Fresh-Water Lake,_
				Open Ocean,_
				Reef,_
				River/Stream,_
				Salt-Water Sea,_
				Tropical Lagoon_
				)_
		)_
	)

Can you tell me what I did wrong here?

[Armin]

Originally Posted by KataH

"Survival Kit (%Terrain% (TL5))",basecost(50),baseweight(20),familiarities(),
mods(Equipment),page(B288, HT58 (Most detailed info)),
precountcost(50),precountweight(20),
techlvl(5),tl(5),usernotes(),
conditional(+0 to "SK:Survival (%Terrain%)", 
description(Basic equipment for Survival skill for a group. Cook pot, rope, hatchet, etc., for 3-8 campers.), cat(High-Tech, High-Tech - Equipment, _Equipment, _Equipment - High-Tech, High-Tech - Equipment Camping and Survival, _Camping and _Camping and Survival, _Camping and Survival - High-Tech, High-Tech - Camping and Survival),_
	x(_
	#ChoiceList(_
			name(Terrain),_
			title(Survival Kit: Choose a Terrain),_
			text(You must specialize by a particular terrain type: (See Survial B223-224) from this list:),_
			picksallowed(1),_
			method(bynumber),_
			list(_
				Arctic,_
				Desert,_
				Island/Beach,_
				Jungle,_
				Mountain,_
				Plains,_
				Swampland,_
				Woodlands,_
				Bank,_
				Deeo Ocean Vent,_
				Fresh-Water Lake,_
				Open Ocean,_
				Reef,_
				River/Stream,_
				Salt-Water Sea,_
				Tropical Lagoon_
				)_
		)_
	)

Can you tell me what I did wrong here?

You're missing a closing ) for the conditional.

Also, you can delete the blue items. Precountcost() and precountweight() are calculated. Apparently they weren't being deleted from the saved tag list as they should have been. They don't hurt anything, but are unnecessary clutter in a system item.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by KataH

Can you tell me what I did wrong here?

Originally Posted by Armin

You're missing a closing ) for the conditional.

On that note if you're going to be doing a lot of data file editing I highly recommend picking up a more advanced text editor like Notepad++ or EditPad Pro. One of the more basic things that those programs can do is help track matching parenthesis. However, I suggest those two programs in particular because I wrote a programming language syntax for GCA Data Files for Notepad++ and Emily Smirle wrote one for EditPad Pro. These give you a lot of more advanced syntax tracking in those programs, making it easier to track down errors in datafiles you're working on.