Drawing a handful of something

[MrFix]

Originally Posted by safisher

"Internal magazine. For weapons with loading gates – like many shotguns and lever-action rifles – it takes one Ready maneuver to retrieve each cartridge and one to insert it. A successful Fast-Draw (Ammo) roll reduces this time by a second for every three cartridges or fraction thereof."

If you already hold three shells in your hand and then reload, it takes two seconds to load all three with a Fast-Draw roll, or three seconds without the roll.

Ten years ago, in a long dead thread, author of High Tech SAFisher made this statement - holding a handful of shells in your hand removes the drawing part of reload process - shots are already drawn.

The question is thus:

How do you draw a handful of something WITHOUT making multiple fast-draw? What is the maneuver to reach into your pocket to draw a handful of coins, raisins, spy bugs, shotgun shells etc? Is that covered anywhere in the rules? Is that just 1 ready maneuver? Is that more than 1 ready maneuver?

Please keep answers to something as RAW as possible. Thank you.

[Varyon]

MA103, within the "Multiple Fast-Draws" rules, allows a single Fast-Draw roll to draw multiple weapons at once. That's geared more toward throwing weapons like shuriken or large pieces of ammo like arrows; doing it with small bullets is probably easier. Using a Ready instead of doing it as a free action is more akin to a free action Fast-Draw followed by a Ready, which would have such a choice let you draw only one more weapon/piece of ammo; personally, I'd be more inclined to have it double the number of items drawn.

[MrFix]

Originally Posted by Varyon

MA103, within the "Multiple Fast-Draws" rules, allows a single Fast-Draw roll to draw multiple weapons at once. That's geared more toward throwing weapons like shuriken or large pieces of ammo like arrows; doing it with small bullets is probably easier. Using a Ready instead of doing it as a free action is more akin to a free action Fast-Draw followed by a Ready, which would have such a choice let you draw only one more weapon/piece of ammo; personally, I'd be more inclined to have it double the number of items drawn.

While I appreciate your post, I explicitly asked for anything that doesn't involve multiple fast-draw. What you describe is from the same box and is a variant of multiple fast-draw.

It's dubious that the only way to draw 5 coins out of your pocket together is to roll Fast-Draw at -10. Or that a handful of sand has to be collected with -2 per 1 grain.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by MrFix

It's dubious that the only way to draw 5 coins out of your pocket together is to roll Fast-Draw at -10. Or that a handful of sand has to be collected with -2 per 1 grain.

I realize this is likely just hyperbole, but just in case - if you're trying to *only* get three grains of sand out of a pocket full of sand in a Fast-Draw, -2 per grain sounds reasonable to me.

It seems fairly likely this is one of those rules that doesn't actually exist, because eventually the line needs to be drawn at "there is no way to make this entertaining in gameplay, and we have a limited word count."

I cannot quickly find anything, as you say, explicit - but one ready for a handful of something that's kept together is fair. I may take some more time this afternoon to see if I can find something else.

[MrFix]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

I realize this is likely just hyperbole, but just in case - if you're trying to *only* get three grains of sand out of a pocket full of sand in a Fast-Draw, -2 per grain sounds reasonable to me.

It seems fairly likely this is one of those rules that doesn't actually exist, because eventually the line needs to be drawn at "there is no way to make this entertaining in gameplay, and we have a limited word count."

I cannot quickly find anything, as you say, explicit - but one ready for a handful of something that's kept together is fair. I may take some more time this afternoon to see if I can find something else.

Thank you, yes it was a bit of a hyperbole. I kinda hoped that since a GURPS writer mentions drawing/holding a handful as possibility, it's something concrete, rather than something that varies from GM to GM.

[Empada]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

I realize this is likely just hyperbole, but just in case - if you're trying to *only* get three grains of sand out of a pocket full of sand in a Fast-Draw, -2 per grain sounds reasonable to me.

It seems fairly likely this is one of those rules that doesn't actually exist, because eventually the line needs to be drawn at "there is no way to make this entertaining in gameplay, and we have a limited word count."

I cannot quickly find anything, as you say, explicit - but one ready for a handful of something that's kept together is fair. I may take some more time this afternoon to see if I can find something else.

good points.
it is not RAW,, but you can make only one roll of fast-draw and the success number is how many items you get. I would use success number +1, so, if you pass with +3 you get 4, and pass with 0 you get 1.

this way you get a bunch of something but you don't know how many, while if you want to get a specific number of items you roll with the modifiers.

in case of specific numbers, you can be less harsh and if the roll would succeed without modifiers, the character still draw something.

[naloth]

Over time, here's the house rules we've used for not having Fast Draw.

If it's something you have ready for easy access (the only items in a pocket, hanging off your jacket where you can grab it, fast dispensing pull like a kleenex box, etc) it's one second per item. 3 shells from a pocket would be 3 seconds. Alternatively, it would be a second to grab and a second to load. Rinse and repeat until the gun is full.

If it's something not rigged for easy access (stuff in your backpack, a purse, etc), you have to ready the container (1 second), then make a check (Search or Per-5) to find what you're looking for. Success takes 1d sec. If you fail, you can retry every 1d sec.

[Anaraxes]

This is why real life has speed loaders and stripper clips. You Fast-Draw just one of those and get multiple rounds in an exact count. They're also usually designed to speed up the actual insertion of cartridges, but that's another question.

I suppose you could train to load a shotgun while holding extra shells in your hand. A little clumsy, but not unmanageable. Technique, or just a cinematic Perk?

What happens when you grab for three shells and accidentally back back with four? Drop the extra on the ground for free? Hold onto it and take another Maneuver to put it back after reloading? If you come back with two, you can just partially reload. The houserule is going to need some way to figure how many items you actually grab. Probably MoS based for convenience (back to that RAW multi-draw penalty, only with intermediate results), but it could be a separate die roll around your intended number.

[Celjabba]

High tech p87 (for loading revolvers) :

It takes one Ready maneuver to ... retrieve each new cartridge ...
A successful Fast-Draw (Ammo) roll reduces this time by a second per cartridge.

So, RAW you can fast-drawn an handful of ammo as fast as one single round.

Action-5 p4 say that Fast-Draw skill isn’t applicable to random objects in
the environment and suggest using instead a DX-based roll against a suitable technical skill.
So a DX-based machinist to "fast-draw" one bolt ?

And I guess a DX roll to "fast-draw" one coin, raisin, ... from a pocket.

And if we extend the high-tech ruling for ammo, the same for several small items.

For larger items, it is a -2 penalty per item (Martial arts).


If the item is not easily accessible (pouch, virtual pocket, ...), it take 1d ready action (DFRPG Exploits p44; Power:the weird p25 )

If there are various item in the pocket :

Tactical shooting p73 : fast-draw (ammo) is at at -4 if carrying more than one type of ammo in a shell bag.
I imagine it extend to other containers.
Is it -4 per round or for any quantity ?

Power : the weird suggest that when carrying multiple objects in a Virtual Pocket, extracting a specific item requires 1d seconds and a DX roll at ‑5 for working by touch

[Kale]

I think this is really a GM's call situation. My own opinion: If you have a pocket full of something small, yet comparable to your finger size like say 9x19mm rounds, you can probably have some control over how many you pull out of your pocket at once by adjusting your grip. If you use your finger tips, I'd allow up to four to be drawn out of the pocket with a DX roll at -1 per round after the first, with failure resulting in dropped rounds equal to the margin of failure. If you just scoop your hand into your pocket and clench your fist then you could probably clean out most of the contents of your pocket, but I'd probably use a random dice roll to determine the number you actually get.
If the objects are smaller than a pistol bullet then you'd probably have an added penalty to DX to try the finger tip method and might not be able to get a precise number, so the final amount could be modified a bit with a die roll.
Two or three turns rummaging around in a pocket would let you select how many you draw out of an unorganized pile without a roll.
Otherwise, carry things in belt loops or pouches to make them more accessible!
Also note the difference between a random pile of stuff and a somewhat organized pouch. A handful of pistol bullets will be pointing every which way in the palm of your hand, so if you are trying to stuff them into a revolver you'll need time to point them the right way. Fast draw is probably not an option in this case. On the other hand, a few long shotgun shells in a small pouch or vest pocket will probably stay pointing the right way so when you pull them out they are pointing the right way to be inserted into a chamber. I'd allow Fast Draw at a penalty for the pocket as the person could conceivably grab the shells with the correct grip and orientation to quickly insert them into the action. On the other hand a bunch of shells loose in a large bag would probably not allow this.