Are Powers Overpriced?

[naloth]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

That's Points-Wise, but Concept-Foolish. “You can't play a Superman expie because a TL9 Battlesuit is better” would pretty much kill a Supers game.

I don't use "High TL" at all, but I'm pretty generous with "Accessories" and "Signature Gear" for Supers that replace or augment innate abilities. If you want a built-in compass or GPS, I don't mind that costing perk (and perhaps money) for that instead of the points the advantage would cost given that it's readily available for normals. It will, however, perform as similar equipment rather than being as reliable or beneficial as the advantage (compass being mislead by magnetic fields or the GPS being blocked).

Besides, when you get to Superman scale characters such equipment is a rather insignificant boost relative to the troubles they cause (secret identity, repair, etc).

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The problem is with things that are similar to gear, and not significantly better, but not close enough that you can just call them gear.

If you can identify an ability as being similar to gear but not significantly better, then that's enough to justify pricing it the same as that gear, even if it's not close enough to actually delicate the gear.

[AlexanderHowl]

High TL is a pretty standard advantage in supers campaign, especially among aliens, gadgeteers, etc. After all, what is Black Panther than a superhero who has access to TL11^ technology (I think that W'kanda would be considered a TL11^ enclave in a TL8 world)? Of course, the price tag of higher TL gear increases with every TL different, so it might be better to design Black Panther's equipment as gadgets rather than Signature Gear.

When it comes to 500 point superheroes though, it makes more sense to purchase Powered Combat Armor as Signature Gear for a super with Damage Reduction 10 than to have them try to purchase everything that the Powered Combat Armor would give them. You end up with a hybrid character, but it is a character who is much more capable than either a pure technology character or a pure superhuman character. In addition, it makes sense for characters to use High TL to purchase weapons and ammunition Signature Gear, as TL9 ranged weapons are much better than the majority of attack abilities for the same point price.

[dataweaver]

Again, Points-Wise but Concept-Foolish. If the only reason why a flying brick is a no-go in your Supers campaign is because of the point costs, change the point costs.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Personally if I'm doing a supers game I just wouldn't use "gear" (my rules-knowledge is sketchy on what exactly this means, but I assume it means things not built using character points): my personal belief is that if it's part of a super's arsenal it's a power with Limitations about being able to be taken away.

Of course that's my personal conception of superhero stories: they never actually worry about gear/almost always have it available even if it's supposed to be mundane and limited by mundane concerns. It's a narrative view of the build.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

High TL is a pretty standard advantage in supers campaign, especially among aliens, gadgeteers, etc. After all, what is Black Panther than a superhero who has access to TL11^ technology (I think that W'kanda would be considered a TL11^ enclave in a TL8 world)? Of course, the price tag of higher TL gear increases with every TL different, so it might be better to design Black Panther's equipment as gadgets rather than Signature Gear.

I don't think Signature Gear is meant to let you acquire gear that is not available on any sort of market, but can only be acquired by having it invented by some unique genius with Gadgeteer skill—not even if you use the gadgeteering rules to assign it a cost. In my campaigns I limit Signature Gear to stuff that you can have by having enough money to buy it from the manuacturer, or hire a mundane business to construct it. (I would allow SG for enchanted items in a world that had professional enchanters for hire in every large town, right down the street from the armorer and the jeweler, but not in a world where reclusive figures carried out secret rituals to produce rare one-time items.)

TL11^ seems over the top. I would accept Wakanda being TL9, I think, as the people in the streets seem to live at a higher TL than present-day Americans. But I don't think you can say that the ^ stuff is a specific TL, other than on the basis of what the non-^ stuff looks like. And the unique stuff invented by Shuri is the product of gadgeteering rolls by a genius inventor, much like Tony Stark's armor or Henry Pym's size change technology. By definition, such items are not widespread enough in a given society to be taken into account in defining that society's TL.

[dataweaver]

I'll say this: if the GM allows a high-tech superhero to get his powers through the High Tech or Gadgeteer advantages and cash, then it's only fair to let a superhero with comparable innate powers to pay for them as if they were high-tech Signature Gear. But yeah; if the reference society is only TL8, it shouldn't be taken as a given that you can pay cash for higher-tech gear.

[Anaraxes]

Supers often claim that their gear is "just high-tech" equipment. But that doesn't mean it should be bought that way, even if you can find stuff in UT. Supers also claim they have perfectly routine stat (if alien -- but it's "normal" for us!), psi, "mutant powers", magic, super-normal stats for humans, ultra-elite training, and who knows what else -- and none of that is literally true, either, even if it has meaning in the first place. Supers in a given world are all generally playing by the same rules, so buy their abilities all the same way. Call it whatever you like; the justification is just fluff, in all cases.

Otherwise, you're really trying to run a kitchen-sink campaign, and should be prepared for all the issues that will arise when you mix your magicians with your aliens with your techologists.

[dataweaver]

I agree with you in principle. But let's take the High Tech stuff out of the picture, and stick to just what's available in the reference society.

One character is a cop, and carries a .44M Auto Pistol (3d pi+ damage, Acc 2, range 230/2500 yards, RoF 3, 9 shots). If he owned the gun, he'd have to pay $750 for it; but as a member of the police department, he gets issued one for free.

The other character has an innate attack that also does 3d pi+ damage (Acc 3, range 10/100, RoF 1), which costs 18 points. Let's say that he's been deputized by the police, so she also has the same law enforcement related traits as the cop. Should the cop have to spend approximately 20 points for his gun?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

I agree with you in principle. But let's take the High Tech stuff out of the picture, and stick to just what's available in the reference society.

One character is a cop, and carries a .44M Auto Pistol (3d pi+ damage, Acc 2, range 230/2500 yards, RoF 3, 9 shots). If he owned the gun, he'd have to pay $750 for it; but as a member of the police department, he gets issued one for free.

The other character has an innate attack that also does 3d pi+ damage (Acc 3, range 10/100, RoF 1), which costs 18 points. Let's say that he's been deputized by the police, so she also has the same law enforcement related traits as the cop. Should the cop have to spend approximately 20 points for his gun?

How much would it cost for the power to make your gun invisible and intangible?