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Old 07-02-2022, 10:50 AM   #1
Alexotl
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Default "Symbiotic" Possession: CP cost?

Hey, everyone!

So, I have this character named Ria. She has the power of Symbiotic Possession: it's RAW Possession except when she possesses someone, instead of "completely suppressing their personality" as stated on B75, their personality is shunted into an auxiliary, independent mental space.

For gameplay purposes, such a possessed person would effectively have Compartmentalized Mind, except one mind has the relevant traits and personality of the possessor, while the other has the relevant traits and personality of the possessed. Each compartment would be able to take control of the body, provided they cooperate. If they do not cooperate, they must periodically battle for dominance as would usually occur between opposing compartments. (If you've ever watched Yu-Gi-Oh, think how Yugi and Atem both inhabit the same body.)

This is obviously an enhancement if Ria possesses an ally, but a limitation if she possesses a foe. For situational boons and situational drawbacks, I see this as an overall enhancement.

What's not so clear is how to price it as a modifier to default Possession. My guess is that I should price it as an enhancement worth +25%, as it's not (imo) quite at the level of a +50% cosmic enhancement (you're breaking a rule, but not entirely in your favor), and 150 points could buy you Possession + CM, which seems a little better (since it does not require cooperation between two potentially uncooperative minds).

Anyway, I think this could be a lot of fun, so I’m wondering:

How would you price it? Do you see any better ways to model this ability?
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Old 07-02-2022, 12:03 PM   #2
WingedKagouti
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Re: "Symbiotic" Possession: CP cost?

I'd be tempted to call it either a +0% Feature or a +10% Enhancement if you use the rules for Compartmentalized Mind.

10% would be the equivalent of the Mind Swap Enhancement, where instead of each mind having a body, the two minds now have to figure out how to do things. Even if the character is possessing a good friend/ally who trusts the character, there may be courses of action the two disagee on.

If the Possession ability is also either Parasitic or Spiritual, you could make a reasonable argument for "coexisting minds" being a +0% Feature. The character will likely have trouble interacting meaningfully with the world without a host (or other abilities) and thus needs to possess someone else to participate. And not only that, they can't even be sure they're in control.

And do remember that for two compartments of a Compartmentalized Mind to communicate, they need some form of Telecommunication (usually Telesend). Without it you should always treat the possessed body as a character with Compartmentalized Mind where one compartment is taken over by an outside force.
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Old 07-02-2022, 01:29 PM   #3
Alexotl
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Default Re: "Symbiotic" Possession: CP cost?

Great, thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
And do remember that for two compartments of a Compartmentalized Mind to communicate, they need some form of Telecommunication (usually Telesend).
That’s interesting, I did not know that. In that case, without Telesend, how are two compartments supposed to coordinate in combat? A player would generally kinda act as a "meta-mind" to direct the individual compartments, so I had assumed that that’s how CM worked flavor-wise—that it automatically comes along with this meta-mind.
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Old 07-03-2022, 04:50 PM   #4
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: "Symbiotic" Possession: CP cost?

I always figured this must be how the Wendigo possession in GURPS Fantasy worked, otherwise how would the possessed person behave like themself, have their memories, etc if a spirit were in control.
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Old 07-03-2022, 09:31 PM   #5
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: "Symbiotic" Possession: CP cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
I'd be tempted to call it either a +0% Feature or a +10% Enhancement if you use the rules for Compartmentalized Mind.

10% would be the equivalent of the Mind Swap Enhancement, where instead of each mind having a body, the two minds now have to figure out how to do things. Even if the character is possessing a good friend/ally who trusts the character, there may be courses of action the two disagee on.

If the Possession ability is also either Parasitic or Spiritual, you could make a reasonable argument for "coexisting minds" being a +0% Feature. The character will likely have trouble interacting meaningfully with the world without a host (or other abilities) and thus needs to possess someone else to participate. And not only that, they can't even be sure they're in control.

And do remember that for two compartments of a Compartmentalized Mind to communicate, they need some form of Telecommunication (usually Telesend). Without it you should always treat the possessed body as a character with Compartmentalized Mind where one compartment is taken over by an outside force.
Dont possession have an Enhancement for "remembering" the victims memories and skills?

If so, just use that and ditch the Compartimentalized Mind; other than this specific Enhancement, the idea of being a "symbiotic possession" would be just a special effect - since the enhancement allows you to access skills and memories of the victims, just consider it as fullfilling the part of "the victim can help with it's own knowledge"
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Old 07-04-2022, 07:23 AM   #6
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: "Symbiotic" Possession: CP cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
Dont possession have an Enhancement for "remembering" the victims memories and skills?
Unless you take the 'No Memory Access' limitation some element is actually built into the raw ability, but the only guaranteed things you know automatically are 'name' and 'daily routine' (w/ the -10% presumably not even those are known)

Otherwise you can attempt to learn a "specific fact" but only get one-roll-EVER per memory, and this IQ roll is penalized by the number of hours you've been lurking in the body.

Based on that, it seems like the smartest choice would be to "try and remember as many things as possible ASAP" in the first hour, before your started taking on IQ penalties.

- - -

Just so this doesn't get handwaived as a player listing 1000+ facts they want to run IQ rolls for (would get very annoying) IMO there should be some kind of time cost to this.

As B76 doesn't actually specify how long it takes to attempt this IQ roll to get a memory, I would posit that we assume the basic attempt time is 10 seconds per recollection attempt. This is consistent with B101's policy for 'not specified' aspects of advantages.

It would make sense to allow the Reduced Time enhancement to chop this down (more than one level isn't useful for much else) though the 'Takes Extra Time' limitation should multiply this time just like it would for activating possession in the first place.

I think it would be fair to allow the "Time Spent" rules here, so if the possessor wanted to spend 'Extra Time' they could make it an IQ+5 roll if they spent x10 as long (100 seconds) or conversely Reduced Time for spending less than 10 seconds - like IQ-9 for 1 second Concentrate or IQ-10 for free-action recollection.

The extra time would often be worth it since you only get one-roll-ever for this. I could see taking the "Reduced Immunity" enhancement to soften this limit though (much like it can already do to soften the usual "you may never attempt to possess that
subject again" aspect. Then you could brute-force the IQ attempts for a memory by using multiple attempts.

-

The enhancement you're probably thinking of is Assimilation, but this only applies to being able to forget your own invested skill points and spend those freed points on HT/DX/ST skills known by the suppressed mind of the host body. It wouldn't help with stuff like magic or IQ-based TL stuff and similar.

Neither of these two things align with the Wendigo (Fantasy 52) after a possession basically allowing the possessed person to operate as usual (presumably with access to their IQ-based skills which a possessing force cannot use) except for minor Conditioning tweaks responding to the Wendigo's Mind Control.

This makes me think maybe the "completely suppressing his personality" doesn't necessarily mean 'the personality is dormant 100% of the time until you leave' but rather "you can make it dormant at will, but also let it regain control any time you like'.

If this IS allowed then IMO any time you do take full control, that 1d seconds of stun should apply (reflecting disorientation) any time you let it resume control of it's body. Just seems to fit thematically. They probably shouldn't have any memory of what they were doing in times you took full control too, but it shouldn't be mandatory to end the possession entirely (evict the body) just to give the original back some temporary control.

What I like about that is it allows for more convincing masquerades as victims of possession slip in and out of their possessed state without actually being exorcised during those moments of lucidity.

- - -

If using the 'Possessions Under Control' rules from Pyramid I'd interpret that as the IQ penalty from Mental Control Points being optional - if you don't wish them to suffer that IQ penalty for a given action then you can lift it (without sacrificing the MCP) briefly to allow them to perform an IQ-based skill you require them to do (cast a spell, fix a car)

That should give them full IQ until you decide to reinstate the suppression though, so they might be able to use it to fight you off, so if they start to do that I'd allow a Power Dodge roll by the ghost to rapidly reinstate those MCP penalties to penalize future Break Free attempts.
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