Deindustrialized World3 22nd Century

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Inky

If any TL5+ items that are currently mass-produced in factories are still around in this setting, you might expect them to be more expensive, either because they're now hand-made or, if still factory-made, because the energy costs of running the factory and the costs of the raw materials have got higher.
But a quick glance at the Low-Tech and High-Tech equipment lists in GCS seems to show that the listed GURPS$ prices don't, in fact, change with TL (for items that appear in both, such as blankets, boots, 5-gallon containers, etc.).

It depends on what items you look at and what is in GCS and GCA as that is limited to what from the books was put in.

For example, in Classic: Cliffhangers two types of blankets are given: Blanket, wool ($2) and Blanket, flannel ($0.35) both TL6.

From the 'tech' books:
*Blanket (TL1). For one person: $20 (Low Tech 33)
*Blanket (TL1) (...) $25 (Low Tech 134)
*Blanket, Emergency (TL7) (...) $5 (High Tech 57)

Not only does the price of this item vary depending on type within a TL but between TLs.

[Inky]

Hmm, interesting. I really don't know what's going on there, then.
"Blanket, Emergency" looked like a "space blanket", not a normal blanket - look at the weight. Is that not the case? The actual "Blanket" in the GCS High-Tech list, listed as High-Tech page 56, is $20, the same as one of the Low-Tech ones.
Not sure what's going on with Classic: Cliffhangers, though. Maybe 3e did prices differently.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Inky

Not sure what's going on with Classic: Cliffhangers, though. Maybe 3e did prices differently.

3e absolutely did doi things differently. Cliffhangers especially is filled with prices in period dollars as the universal Gurps $ hadn't quite been invented yet.

Prices in TLs yet-to-come were in theoretical units where prices were mostly like TL7 but inflation had been done away with.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

3e absolutely did doi things differently. Cliffhangers especially is filled with prices in period dollars as the universal Gurps $ hadn't quite been invented yet.

Actually, the universal GURPS $ had been invented:
*"Prices are always listed in $, for convenience – but $ can stand for dollar, credit, silver piece, or whatever is appropriate." Classic Basic Set 3e pg 71
*"All prices in GURPS (whatever the game world) are indicated by a dollar sign – $ – just to make it easy on the writers and typesetters. GMs are welcome to translate this to credits, copper farthings, Martian foomphra or whatever they feel is appropriate to the
adventure" Classic Basic Set 3e pg 189

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Prices in TLs yet-to-come were in theoretical units where prices were mostly like TL7 but inflation had been done away with.

Actually inflation hasn't been done away as demonstrated how Paut's price increases with TL just like starting wealth does. Heck, Industrial Enchantment is linked to this TL starting wealth.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by maximara

Actually, the universal GURPS $ had been invented:
*"Prices are always listed in $, for convenience – but $ can stand for dollar, credit, silver piece, or whatever is appropriate." Classic Basic Set 3e pg 71
*"All prices in GURPS (whatever the game world) are indicated by a dollar sign – $ – just to make it easy on the writers and typesetters. [B]GMs are welcome to translate this to credits, copper farthings, Martian foomphra or whatever they feel is appropriate to the

This is not what "Universal Gurps $" means. That has the $ being the same amount of money regardless of tL or location. Cliffhangers 3e (and WWII 3e) have their prices in period dollars. Many other 3e books do this as well.

My comment about inflation was only to indicate that futuristic TLs used a $15,000 Starting Wealth the same as TL7 as if their had been no inflation. Late 3e books started increasing Starting Wealth at higher tLs.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

This is not what "Universal Gurps $" means. That has the $ being the same amount of money regardless of tL or location. Cliffhangers 3e (and WWII 3e) have their prices in period dollars. Many other 3e books do this as well.

My comment about inflation was only to indicate that futuristic TLs used a $15,000 Starting Wealth the same as TL7 as if their had been no inflation. Late 3e books started increasing Starting Wealth at higher tLs.

Classic Basic Set pg 16 and Steampunk 2 Steam and Shellfire pg 5 both touch on inflation regarding prices. Regarding future TL wealth levels Classic likely thought about post scarcity settings when putting out a base wealth value.

Steampunk 2 Steam and Shellfire has this multiply historical sources by 22 and divide GURPS $ value by 22 for the 1850-1915 period.

4e Basic Set states "In a contemporary setting, $1 is a modern U.S. dollar. In other periods, $1 equates roughly with the amount of local currency needed to buy a loaf of bread or equivalent staple – not with historical U.S. dollars."

Basically this seems to be using Adam Smith's idea that "corn" (grain) in relation to labor is a better benchmark than gold silver or whatever else the setting uses. Of course if you have a magic/real high tech setting this goes pear shaped real fast.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Rolando

This two extremes seems like a good start for a setting. Some all organic utopia is surrounded by cannibal stone age savages... Zardoz more or less.

You couldn't use Boulder for that. It's entirely too close to Denver, and Denver is much larger, now, than when Steven King wrote, The Stand (and that was a different, and much more annoying, apocalypse, anyway).

In Colorado, I'd set a post-collapse campaign in the valley of the North Fork of the Gunnison Valley, or in the San Luis Valley, or possibly up in the White River Valley.