Reliable Enhancement vs buying Power Talent?

[Peter Knutsen]

On some Powers, it's cheaper to choose to buy a few levels of the Reliable Talent at +5% per level, than to purchase Power Talent.

Based on this, one might be tempted to say that Reliable should often be unavailable, and that Talent should be purchased instead as the sole route to "better control".

The only reason for preferring Talent is that in many cases, a Talent covers 2 or 3 or sometimes more Powers (even while still costing only 5/lvl), boosting them all, which might make it cheaper than to buy Reliable (at least until you hit the Talent ceiling, 4 levels in most settings but higher in some with or without UB).

I assumed that Talent added to some less-than-straightforward rolls that Reliable doen't add to, such as rolls for Power Stunts and perhaps also Extra Effort with Powers, but this appears not to be the case - it seems as if Reliable adds to all rolls, no exceptions. So that's not a reason for players to prefer Talent.

So what's up and down here, on this issue?

The topic is Reliable Enhancement vs Talent, in a player choice-making context.

Discuss!

[ericthered]

GM's will often allow power talent and not allow reliable.


That would be 80% of the whole of it to me. The point about covering multiple abilities is also strong -- perhaps that's another 10 or 15%.

There are some cases where reliable doesn't really apply and power talent does: innate attack rolls, for instance, or disguise rolls with elastic skin.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

he topic is Reliable Enhancement vs Talent, in a player choice-making context.

Discuss!

If there is a problem here I suspect it is with Power Talent. If Power Talent doesn't make mathematical sense then don't distort the choice until it does. The math is what it is and distorting the math distorts the choice.

Of course, I would only "require" Power Talent in the first place when it makes sense. Perhaps when Power talent is acting as a sort of UB but legally that is satisfied by a single level.

[munin]

Originally Posted by ericthered

… There are some cases where reliable doesn't really apply and power talent does: innate attack rolls, for instance, or disguise rolls with elastic skin.

That's not how I've interpreted it.

"Reliable … This works exactly like Talent …" (p. P109)

Reliable is the ability-specific Talent.

[Phil Masters]

Reliable can be very appropriate sometimes when a creature or being has some specific ability that just works, pretty darned well, despite the controlling attribute possibly being mediocre, and where the ability is a standalone thing rather than being part of some complex power. In such cases, fudging in a Talent feels clunky and inappropriate. Where you're not really talking about a power, having a Talent for it is silly.

My big example is Transhuman Space's AIs with their "Visualization" (sophisticated task modelling) ability. This is supposed to be far more dependable than their usual IQ levels would imply, but obliging them to take 20 points of Talent to make a 10-point advantage reasonably useful would just be nuts.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

On some Powers, it's cheaper to choose to buy a few levels of the Reliable Talent at +5% per level, than to purchase Power Talent.

Based on this, one might be tempted to say that Reliable should often be unavailable, and that Talent should be purchased instead as the sole route to "better control".

The only reason for preferring Talent is that in many cases, a Talent covers 2 or 3 or sometimes more Powers (even while still costing only 5/lvl), boosting them all, which might make it cheaper than to buy Reliable (at least until you hit the Talent ceiling, 4 levels in most settings but higher in some with or without UB).
!

And that is quite sufficient. Talents as ever, constitute a package deal. It is always cheaper to buy up a single skill than to buy up a Talent and Reliable is equivalent to buying up skill in an Advantage.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by munin

That's not how I've interpreted it.

"Reliable … This works exactly like Talent …" (p. P109)

Reliable is the ability-specific Talent.

I agree with Eric. Reliable shouldn't add to Innate Attack. That's specifically the effect of the Accurate Enhancement.

Likewise, Reliable can't aid skills associated with shapechange effects, such as Acting, but that's only part logic, the rest being because in GURPs shapechange effects usually don't have an associated skill roll, they just work automatically, and so Talent needed something to do to make it worthwhile, and that ended up being as a bonus to rolls to "pass" or otherwise deceive while being affected by a shapechange type power.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by ericthered

There are some cases where reliable doesn't really apply and power talent does: innate attack rolls, for instance,

Reliable doesn't apply ranged innate attacks, do you have a source saying it doesn't apply to non-ranged ones?

Originally Posted by ericthered

or disguise rolls with elastic skin.

Source please?

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Likewise, Reliable can't aid skills associated with shapechange effects, such as Acting, but that's only part logic, the rest being because in GURPs shapechange effects usually don't have an associated skill roll, they just work automatically, and so Talent needed something to do to make it worthwhile, and that ended up being as a bonus to rolls to "pass" or otherwise deceive while being affected by a shapechange type power.

If a power Talent adds to a roll, Reliable adds to that roll:

Originally Posted by Powers page 109; Reliable

Whatever the reason, you get a bonus on all rolls to use it. This works exactly like Talent, and can’t affect anything that Talent wouldn’t affect. It’s cumulative with Talent, where applicable.

[Lia Valenth]

I normally have a cap on both (Talent 4-5, Reliable 5) so having maxed bother (Reliable 5 and Talent 4) means +9 to that advantage and +4 to related others. It allows both specialization in the single most used abilities, and general ability in other related powers.