GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling is out

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

And now TG nerfs the one of the few major benefits of SM.

No, SM still gives you reach, it doesn't make your ground game better, seriously, if you've got reach you don't give that up by allowing the shrimp to spider monkey your head.

[PK]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

This makes Size Modifier even less desirable as a 0-pt Feature than before (it was pretty abysmal with the clarifications in BIO and LT/LTCs to begin with).

Why do authors keep nerfing certain characters for taking a 0-pt feature?

That's an unfair assessment to throw at Doug. His mandate in writing TG was to create an advanced, realistic system which could optionally replace the existing grappling rules in GURPS. So any consideration he gave to SM should have been "what are the most realistic effects of SM?" not "how can I make sure that high-SM characters are getting value out of that feature?"

Anyway, the assertion that big people are "nerfed" in TG seems to be ignoring the new approach to grappling. In TG, ST is king -- far more so than in the standard grappling rules! The stronger grappler will establish far more CP on his foe, which will let him dominate the fight. And in GURPS, high SM is intended to correlated with higher ST, which is why you get a significant discount on its cost. An SM +2 giant will likely have ST 25, which means he's rolling six times as many CP as his ST 10 foe, on average. And his SM was effectively a disadvantage, in that it saved him 30 points on his ST.

Granted, this assumption breaks if your world is full of SM -2, ST 20 halflings and SM +2, ST 8 ogres, but that's not because of Doug and TG. It's just an artifact of the quasi-realistic assumptions that GURPS makes, such as that "size" and "strength" will be at least loosely proportional. Please feel free to send all hate mail about these things to Sean and me. :)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by PK

It's just an artifact of the quasi-realistic assumptions that GURPS makes, such as that "size" and "strength" will be at least loosely proportional. Please feel free to send all hate mail about these things to Sean and me. :)

The problem with such assumptions is that the game system doesn't make much effort to enforce those assumptions. It could be quite easily fixed by, for example, making SM not a zero point feature.

[JCurwen3]

@DC -

Question: in your post RESCALING MELEE WEAPONS, you presented the house rule (which I use and enjoy) that rescaled ST-powered damage to be sensible vs firearm damage. Using this, sw and thr damage for a given ST would be lower overall.

Would you suggest that CP values (which run off the same ST-based damage table as in Basic) are cinematic or realistic as they are? Basically, if I use your house rule on rescaling melee weapon damage, should I also use a similarly revised table for finding the CP that would be inflicted for a given ST, or are you happy with the standard CP values as is, as far as realism goes?

Also, did you ever get a chance, in playtest, to see the interaction between the rules in Technical Grappling and The Last Gasp (both the adjustments to FP recovery and the addition of AP)?

[Kromm]

This thread has drifted far enough off topic to need closing. It started as a discussion of a new release, which we truly appreciate whether you're writing to congratulate, criticize, or simply chime in with "Me, too!" Oscar Wilde said it best: "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." However, the thread has since mutated into the "What is SM worth?" discussion that has been around since 2004. Feel free to restart that in another thread that doesn't drag in GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling by naming it in the title. Here are some seed topics for you:

High SM is good because it . . .

• allows you to hurdle larger objects as a free action (p. B352).
• enables trampling (p. B404) and overruns (p. B432).
• entitles you to buy cheaper ST (p. B15), Arm ST (p. B40), Lifting ST (p. B65), Striking ST (p. B88), and HP (p. B16).
• gives you extra reach in melee combat (p. B402) and lets you fight at a height advantage (p. B403).
• grants bonus DX and ST when grappling, whatever grappling rules you prefer.
• makes you more costly to affect with harmful Regular spells (p. B239).
• means you have no penalty to wield higher-SM melee weapons that enjoy improved damage, whichever weapon-scaling rules you prefer.
• renders you more intimidating and less likely to be intimidated (p. B202), and allows you to shrug off the fear effect of being charged (p. B397).
• slows the effects of poison (p. B438).

High SM is bad because it . . .

• amplifies the effects of being crushed by high pressure (p. B435).
• causes you to be hit by more fragments from explosions (p. B415).
• leaves you more susceptible to high-RoF attacks when motionless (p. B409).
• makes you easier to hit (p. B19), whatever version of the rules you prefer.
• makes you more costly to affect with helpful Regular spells (p. B239).
• means you must pay more to eat, if using the optional rules for that.
• raises the cost and weight of your gear (p. B20).
• renders you easier to see (p. B19).