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Old 06-30-2014, 02:21 PM   #251
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The focus of technology might be different. Example: Airships are useless in war (well except as U-Boat hunters) but they beat airplanes for lift. Maybe no WWI means that the preference for Airships stays strong long enough for them to become more practical. Computers would still advance. Primitive computer like devices preceded WWI, some of the advantages of computers were vaguely understood.

Given the old aristocratic elites generally disliked/feared technology. The USA might still become the technology leader simply because there would be less anti-technology influence here.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:47 PM   #252
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Without WW1, would communism be able to gain any traction or would it be just another political/economic philosophy among many? Would it be able to take root elsewhere in the world without the USSR to spread it?
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:26 AM   #253
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Without WW1, would communism be able to gain any traction or would it be just another political/economic philosophy among many? Would it be able to take root elsewhere in the world without the USSR to spread it?
I would think you still get widespread communism, since Russia would still be a mess. Or at least something like it - the mix of players and philosophies would be slightly changed. Then again, with a more stable Europe communism doesn't have the "hope for something better than what we have now" appeal. It would be more confined to Russia itself, maybe a major source of "anarchist attacks". Trotsky would carry more weight as an "internationalist" and not get deported by Stalin, and be the Osama bin Ladin of communist terrorism.

But the crazy ideas on food production (for example) would show up as mistakes far earlier if they had less resources to draw on. The USSR would be a second or third tier country going forward into the middle 20th century, like wracked by internal discord and uprisings. A super sized Afghanistan.
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Old 07-01-2014, 10:00 AM   #254
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But the crazy ideas on food production (for example) would show up as mistakes far earlier if they had less resources to draw on. The USSR would be a second or third tier country going forward into the middle 20th century, like wracked by internal discord and uprisings. A super sized Afghanistan.
Perhaps "the starving man of Europe," echoing a similar description of one of their neighbors in the previous century?

Considering that international relief in any substantial form is a post-WWII thing, this could change the power dynamics of Eastern Europe yet again, as that world's Russians die from unplanned famines.
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:55 PM   #255
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Perhaps "the starving man of Europe," echoing a similar description of one of their neighbors in the previous century?

Considering that international relief in any substantial form is a post-WWII thing, this could change the power dynamics of Eastern Europe yet again, as that world's Russians die from unplanned famines.
That's a good one. The USSR begins to break up from internal stresses, and helped along by the Anglo-Austro-German Alliance. Spies, terrorists, relatively primative nukes with no missiles to deliver them so they're trucked around in, say, a turnip cart in downtown Minsk. This begins to sound a little like the Steel Czar.
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Old 07-01-2014, 02:18 PM   #256
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Try this idea, during Stalin's purges, a cerical error causes to lists to get their lables switched. List A) was a list of Idealistic Party members of absolute integrety, List B) was a list of capable opportunists without moral scruples. In our world, were these lists didn't get mixed up, Stalin Purged List A). Stalin meant to purge the same kind of people in this world, but the mix up redirected the purge to the Amoral Opportunists.

Later, when the plan to remove Khrushchev is being worked up, several of the few survivors of the list work to stop the coup. Many of Brezhnev's key allies, who weren't purged in our world, don't exist here. Khrushchev retains power and Brezhnev loses his party membership and goes into internal exile.

Khrushchev picked his successor from amoung them men who saved him. It's 1968 Prague Spring is welcomed in Moscow. Russian spring is planned. "Glasnost" and "Perestroika" have come early. The hopeful noises out of Eastern Europe influence the American Elections putting Humphery into the White House. The last 21 years of the Cold War canceled!

Now the bipolar world is gone, what's is the multipolar world of 2014 like this time?
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:23 AM   #257
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Try this idea, during Stalin's purges, a cerical error causes to lists to get their lables switched. List A) was a list of Idealistic Party members of absolute integrety, List B) was a list of capable opportunists without moral scruples. In our world, were these lists didn't get mixed up, Stalin Purged List A). Stalin meant to purge the same kind of people in this world, but the mix up redirected the purge to the Amoral Opportunists.

Later, when the plan to remove Khrushchev is being worked up, several of the few survivors of the list work to stop the coup. Many of Brezhnev's key allies, who weren't purged in our world, don't exist here. Khrushchev retains power and Brezhnev loses his party membership and goes into internal exile.

Khrushchev picked his successor from amoung them men who saved him. It's 1968 Prague Spring is welcomed in Moscow. Russian spring is planned. "Glasnost" and "Perestroika" have come early. The hopeful noises out of Eastern Europe influence the American Elections putting Humphery into the White House. The last 21 years of the Cold War canceled!

Now the bipolar world is gone, what's is the multipolar world of 2014 like this time?
Wow, this is asking a lot. So a shorthand version...

Europe goes its own way, probably turning East and integrates Poland, East Germany, etc. Germany comes out as the economic powerhouse, dominating Britain and France. Those countries still have holdings in the Pacific, and have really irked the US by dumping Vietnam in its lap. With only a decade or so of facing an invincible USSR there is less cooperation in Europe, so less acceptance of an EU.

Without the USSR, and not trusting China, North Vietnam has less resources, but the US has lost its stated reason to fight, and Humphery pulls the troops early. Radicals in China are able to encourage a stronger Khmer Rouge. Southeast Asia is a chaotic, violent place, with tensions between the US and Britain and France not helping.

No Nixon, no US-Sino detente. Britain makes the push for relations, and while not rebuffed it is not nearly as open and successful as the homeline version. Without the huge amount of Western investment starting in the late 80s and 90s, and the continuing radicalization encouraged by its Cambodian adventures, China cannot deal with the huge stresses to its economy. Civil Wars in the 90s lead to a breakup, with a pro-Western south tied to Britain.

The US drifts politically without a major enemy, and tensions with former allies. Government stagnates, caught up in issues of minority and women's rights, with no movement forward and a lot of backsliding as radicalized politics gain ground. By 2014 there is more political violence and fewer rights for women and minorities. The US is much poorer place overall, without the spikes and crashes of the housing and internet bubbles, and major investments for decades. President Orin Hatch leads a stagnated, if still somewhat prosperous, nation.

Early tax revolts and stalled government mean no major investment initiatives - no Internet as we know it. The Germans come up with the "Gobelin" (tapestry), a much more commercial and compartmentalized version of the 'Net. Even so, the so-called Gobelin Market is a huge hit.

OPEC never got to try out the Oil Embargo, as they transitioned from American/British to German dominated exports. Israel doesn't get the American funding at homeline levels, but without the major tensions of the Cold War. Egypt, without USSR or Western funding, backs down after the Six Day War. With its East European ties, and that areas growing economic clout, this timelines Israel is far more prosperous and peaceful. No Yom Kippur War, the Arabs abandon the "no recognition" stance by the late 70s, the PLO dissolves in internal dissent by the mid-80s. By 2014 the entire Mid-East is peaceful and prosperous, if very authoritarian. Islamic terrorism is still a factor, but very minor compared with homeline.

India and Brazil have advanced economically, becoming major players, both with economies larger than Britain and France combined.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:52 AM   #258
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Now the bipolar world is gone, what's is the multipolar world of 2014 like this time?
A bit of a counterpoint:
Khrushchev retires in 1965 and picks a Gorbachev-like successor. Khrushchev's reforms continue throughout the 60's and 70's. Prague Spring isn't crushed, but Dubček doesn't push his reforms as hard either. By 1980, everything Gorbachev tried to accomplish in five years came in fifteen. Now the Soviet Union's beginning to look like OTL China.

At the same time, the reforms in Europe and Russia are having little effect in the greater foreign policy of the Soviet Union. The seeming change in the Soviet Union, didn't seem to stop the dominoes and in 1972, Reagan crushes Humphrey and his economic policy puts an early end to the mid-70's recession. By 1980, things look good for the U.S. under G.H. Bush.

China probably reacts to the reforms in the Soviet Union with a more aggressive cultural revolution than OTL. As Reagan lacks the Anti-Communist profile of Nixon, Chinese-American don't relations normalize. As Soviet-Chinese relations cool more dramatically, a limited war erupts over the Ussuri River region. The Chinese "win" the war with a minimal territorial gain, leading into the growth of the Chinese Sphere in Cambodia and North Korea. However, the cooled relations between the Soviet Union and China halt UN membership.

With both sides of the Cold War looking strong in 1980, I'd estimate that 2014 would be still be very bipolar, but with China acting more independently.
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Old 07-03-2014, 11:26 AM   #259
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A bit of a counterpoint:
Khrushchev retires in 1965 and picks a Gorbachev-like successor. Khrushchev's reforms continue throughout the 60's and 70's. Prague Spring isn't crushed, but Dubček doesn't push his reforms as hard either. By 1980, everything Gorbachev tried to accomplish in five years came in fifteen. Now the Soviet Union's beginning to look like OTL China.

At the same time, the reforms in Europe and Russia are having little effect in the greater foreign policy of the Soviet Union. The seeming change in the Soviet Union, didn't seem to stop the dominoes and in 1972, Reagan crushes Humphrey and his economic policy puts an early end to the mid-70's recession. By 1980, things look good for the U.S. under G.H. Bush.

China probably reacts to the reforms in the Soviet Union with a more aggressive cultural revolution than OTL. As Reagan lacks the Anti-Communist profile of Nixon, Chinese-American don't relations normalize. As Soviet-Chinese relations cool more dramatically, a limited war erupts over the Ussuri River region. The Chinese "win" the war with a minimal territorial gain, leading into the growth of the Chinese Sphere in Cambodia and North Korea. However, the cooled relations between the Soviet Union and China halt UN membership.

With both sides of the Cold War looking strong in 1980, I'd estimate that 2014 would be still be very bipolar, but with China acting more independently.
Minor quibble - I don't think Bush would have been Reagen's VP if he won the 72 election. Probably Helms or some other more fire brand Republican. Bush was more of an effort to get the Southern vote AND placate the moderate branch of the GOP, something this timeline's Reagan probably doesn't need to do.
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Old 07-04-2014, 09:41 AM   #260
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How about this one - George Washington had an unhappy childhood or something, so when the Revolution happens and there are calls for him to become a king, he accepts. King George I is inaugurated, crowned by a sour looking Franklin.
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