Terraforming in the OTU

[Mant]

[Hope this isn't a breach of etiquette- this is a repost from the other thread to get it back on track before I realised that people had branched off]

Anyway, about terraforming Venus...

The reason why I brought it up was that I think that using the planets of our solar system in Traveller games can serve as a bridge between hard sf and space opera, and between our 21st century known universe and the Traveller universe.

It may be difficult to terraform Venus, and the resulting world may be far from paradise, but it would be a really nice way in for gamers to get to know the traveller universe. Imagine starting a game with players who've never played Traveller or are very rusty. You start out on Earth- it has some vague similarities (the continents are more or less the same shape, an English variant language is spoken, many cities are still there). However it's also vastly different- spaceports, anti-grav vehicles etc, massive devastation left over from the Solomani Rim Wars and so on.

The characters then end up on Venus- the once hell planet that's now a mineral rich industrial hub, its population is smallish anda mix of hardy (maybe geneered) locals and semi-transient workers on highly paid hardship assignments (something like mine and oil rig environments today). It was a tough job to terraform Venus, but worth it due to its proximity to Earth. What it costs in effort is saved in the long run in transport times/costs.

From there the players are ready to boldy go into the rest of the Imperium and beyond. The habitable solar system has been the stepping stone into the wider universe.

Where possible terraforming is explained using contemporary science. When we get out of our depth, we resort to handwavium science. After all, in a universe with jump technology, we can make the science up from time to time to keep the story moving. Remember- it's all about the stories we tell.

Thanks for all your comments so far. Can't wait for the next round.

[Malenfant]

The problem with that idea is that it's much easier to terraform Mars than it is Venus, and Mars isn't much further away.

[Mant]

I'd imagine that by the 3rd Imperium all the more or less earth sized planets would be terraformed. I guess I mentioned Venus because everyone always talks about terraforming Mars (no doubt because it's so much easier).

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by Mant

I'd imagine that by the 3rd Imperium all the more or less earth sized planets would be terraformed. I guess I mentioned Venus because everyone always talks about terraforming Mars (no doubt because it's so much easier).

Well that's part of the point of this topic... why would you imagine that all the earth-sized worlds would be terraformed? For one, terrafroming is (canonical TL tables) around the TL 15-16 area, and not a lot of the Imperium is at that TL.

For another, why on earth would anyone waste the money, time and effort to terraform worlds when there are plenty of perfectly habitable worlds out there in the OTU already?

The main reason that terraforming is usually mentioned is because the UWPs generate a physically nonsensical world (e.g. a world the size of the moon with a breathable atmosphere) and people wave their arms and say "er, the ancients terraformed it". If the world generation system was realistic to start with then those worlds wouldn't exist, and the number of "terraformed" worlds would be much much smaller.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

For another, why on earth would anyone waste the money, time and effort to terraform worlds when there are plenty of perfectly habitable worlds out there in the OTU already?

As a favor to some hydrocannibalistic desert savages who helped him become Emperor? Right, right, wrong story.

But there might be a number of reasons to terraform a world and these would go deep into politics, and normal human nature. It might be desired to have a nature preserve, or a training ground for Imperial Marines or whatever. And any hostile environment that has a population can reasonably be assumed to have at least enough tech for people to survive, and something about it to give people a motive to stay.

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

But there might be a number of reasons to terraform a world and these would go deep into politics, and normal human nature. It might be desired to have a nature preserve, or a training ground for Imperial Marines or whatever.

But there aren't "any number of reasons" for that. It's completely idiotic to waste trillions of credits and spend years and years to terraform a borderline world when a perfectly (or at least "much more") habitable one is within easy reach in the next system.

The standard assumption in the OTU seems to be that people (and/or Ancients) are phenomenally stupid and irrational.

And any hostile environment that has a population can reasonably be assumed to have at least enough tech for people to survive, and something about it to give people a motive to stay.

That's fair enough in some cases, but again the random UWP generation process generates a lot of really stupid results (e.g. billions of people at low TL on a world with an insidious atmosphere). The standard response is "oh, you have to use your imagination to explain them", but I think that's just a patronising way to hide a very broken design system.

[ak_aramis]

The simplest reason for terraforming is political or religious unity.

An interstellar colony is inherently less united to the motherworld than one which is merely interplanetary. The travel times might not be much different, but the comm lags are.

So, if the world in system can be made habitable, it provides a huge LOCAL economic stimulus, a long term unifying political goal, and a colony that's close enough to probably retain the majority of the cultural identity if not overly exploited. Further, representatives can be in meaningful contact with their selectors (be they representing a dictator or an electorate).

[Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

But there aren't "any number of reasons" for that. It's completely idiotic to waste trillions of credits and spend years and years to terraform a borderline world when a perfectly (or at least "much more") habitable one is within easy reach in the next system.

Who says the perfectly habitable world in the next system doesn't already belong to someone else?



Hans

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

So, if the world in system can be made habitable, it provides a huge LOCAL economic stimulus, a long term unifying political goal, and a colony that's close enough to probably retain the majority of the cultural identity if not overly exploited. Further, representatives can be in meaningful contact with their selectors (be they representing a dictator or an electorate).

Except when the colonists feel like they're enslaved to some process that's going to take decades to complete (and may not work). Or when the money/interest from the homeworld runs out.

And you certainly don't need terraforming to retain a cultural identity or "unity", a terraforming is a pretty ridiculous reason to justify that.

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen

Who says the perfectly habitable world in the next system doesn't already belong to someone else?

It doesn't, unless it's over a border. Unless you're saying that the Imperium restricts movement of people around its worlds.