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Old 07-13-2021, 09:51 AM   #1
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Pyramid 3-33 and 3-52 Errata?

I was toying with At Play in the Fields (Pyramid 3-33, pp. 16-22) and Lord of the Manor (Pyramid 3-52, pp. 4-9) to see if/how it might fit into my campaign building, and I'm curious if there's an errata. I wanted to build a spreadsheet, but couldn't get all the calculations to match from the examples.

At Play in the Fields
  1. The first issue I had was that the article begins by lamenting that LT3 doesn't answer "[which type of grain costs $1/lbs]" and gives a table, yet in the first example it seems to ignore it. Barley and legumes are worth $1/lbs and $2/lbs, respectively, but are sold for $1/lbs. I guess it could be assumed all the legumes are implicitly consumed as part of Cost of Living, but I would think this would at least be remarked.
  2. 9 farmers are claimed to give $7 526, but $836 * 9 = $7 524 (and non-rounded figures are lower, according to my spreadsheet), so this might be a typo (or the numbers used aren't rounded in all calculations).
  3. When it comes to the sample production examples, I get the first two working, but not the last two. Barley gives 705 * (2/4) * 66.7% * 2 * 6.22 = 2 924.86 effective lbs/year, when factoring in base productivity, ratio, yield (extrapolated from the average in the table in LT3), plantings and (calculated) field size, respectively. Added to similar calculations for wheat and legumes I arrive at 2 924.86 + 736.40 + 580.82 = 4 242.08. The rest falls out neatly too, as well as similar calculation for the second example. I figured the next examples would follow similar calculations, but for the first TL4 example, of wheat and legumes, I get something completely different. Wheat and legumes give 5 591.26 and 1 553.13 effective lbs/year, under a similar assumption of yield in the middle of the range from LT3 (83.3%), but that's a total of 7 144, way off the given 6 673. I also don't get how that translates into a surplus of 2 027 lbs nor how that sells for $1 689 (about 83%, or approximately $5 per 6 lbs). Rice gives 13 555 lbs, so a bit off the given 11 444 as well. All assuming my formulas are correct, which it might not even be.

    Lord of the Manor

  4. First off, the article states the surplus of TL1-2 is 2 187 lbs, given 0.625 $/lbs, but how does that translate into 186 lbs and not 2 187 / 12 = 182.25 on the CR6 row (”[the overlord] gets the entire surplus”)? I was trying to extrapolate the table, but it seems the overlord gets more than the entire surplus.
  5. The villa seemed to lack some acres, since TL1-2 gives 15.6 acres/farmer for 29 + 2 grain farmers, 5.8 for 7 vine, and 32 for 2 pigs and 40 for 2 sheep farmers which all add up to 668.2. However, that’s $70.5 too much in income and lacks 7 olive farmers (or olive and vine are equally big, but leaving olive comes closer in income). Similar results for the fine villa, but instead $101.6 too much and 761.8 acres (so truncated or I am missing something).
  6. The village seemed to match up, but the wealthy one I got $15 003.58, so rounded, I missed something, or something else is off.
  7. Likewise the chateau went fine, but the spice plantation was way off (so I likely missed something obvious). 10 grain farmers and 3 cinnamon gives 124 acres, whereas 6 grain and 3 cinnamon generate $13 593.78 in my book.

If anyone happens to have any help it would be greatly appreciated.
FeiLin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 06:56 AM   #2
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 and 3-52 Errata?

I can't help you there - but I myself utilize HARNMANOR rules for setting up Manors and calculating actual yields per year per acre and taking it from there.

I've also converted the GURPS MASS COMBAT rules to handle Battle Lust rules and guidelines for mass combat. The trick to this is to treat each element as 5 men instead of 10 as GURPS does, and to use the HARN WORLD prices to raise troops in Silver pennies instead of GURPS values. It worked out PERFECTLY.

I also converted Magic Item creation prices by dividing prices in GURPS by Struggling income values as monthly income units. Thus, a struggling income that in GURPS, required 10 month's pay in GURPS, would require 10 month's pay in the Harn World silver penny system.

In all, I liked how well the two systems work well with each other in that regard.
hal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 03:40 PM   #3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 and 3-52 Errata?

In the real world, variation in yields by season and location is huge. If you aren't worried about the accuracy of the mechanics, the numbers you have produced are within the bounds of reality.

When I model villages I use Farm Gate prices and Market Prices to make the economics work smoother. The market price is the standard GURPS value and the average farmer away from a market only gets half that.
Waiting for inspiration to strike......
And spending too much time thinking about farming for RPGs
Contributor to Citadel at Nordvörn

Last edited by (E); 07-14-2021 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 07-16-2021, 02:30 AM   #4
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 and 3-52 Errata?

Yields listed below are "After tithe paid" Thus, if Tithe is 10%, and your yield was 8 Bushels, you owed to the church, .8 bushels in tithe. A yield after tithe for 8 bushels would thus be 8-.8 or 7.2 bushels.

Wheat: Sown: 2 bushels per acre Yield 7.2 bushels
Barley: Sown: 4 bushels per acre Yield: 17.6 bushels
Peas: Sown: 3 bushels Yield: 8 Bushels
Oats: 3 bushels Yield: 9 bushels

Price per quarter (8 bushels)
Wheat: 6 shillings or 72 pence (silver pennies)
Barley: 4 shillings 4 pence or 52 pence
Peas: 2 shillings 8 pence or 32 pence

I don't have a price listing for Oats per bushel. Now to translate the price per quarter to price per bushel, simply divide the values per quarter by 8. That works out to 9 pence per bushel for wheat, 6 pence 2 farthings for Barley, and 4 pence per bushel for peas.

Year this was taken from in England? 1299-1300
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economy, farming, low-tech, pyramid, spreadsheet

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