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Old 04-18-2020, 03:17 PM   #1
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
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Default Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

So I've encountered a weighty problem when attempting to reproduce the TL11 blaster cannon in UT123 using Pyramid #3/37: Blaster and Laser Design.

Up until now, I have simply been plugging in the listed damage dice, which gives a line of statistics comparable to the blasters in the book (note: I've only done blasters, so far).

The problem is the TL11 blaster cannon, which came out to 37,000lbs, against the listed weight of 4,000 lbs.

So... this seems off.
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Old 04-18-2020, 03:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
So I've encountered a weighty problem when attempting to reproduce the TL11 blaster cannon in UT123 using Pyramid #3/37: Blaster and Laser Design.

Up until now, I have simply been plugging in the listed damage dice, which gives a line of statistics comparable to the blasters in the book (note: I've only done blasters, so far).

The problem is the TL11 blaster cannon, which came out to 37,000lbs, against the listed weight of 4,000 lbs.

So... this seems off.
Well, it can be made a little smaller by using a smaller focal array, however that still leaves it over four times the weight it should be. UT seems to have assumed that energy weapons become lighter at TLs higher than their minimum, while the Pyramid article does not. Thus weapons like this aren't going to fit.
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Old 04-18-2020, 04:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Well, it can be made a little smaller by using a smaller focal array, however that still leaves it over four times the weight it should be. UT seems to have assumed that energy weapons become lighter at TLs higher than their minimum, while the Pyramid article does not. Thus weapons like this aren't going to fit.
I think that, while the pyramid article nominally supports cannons, it does not support cannons on a practical level. The bulk for the TL10 blaster cannon came out to -122.

It may be that there's rules in UT or the Basic Set that I'm missing that the author of the article assumed would be applied to weapons made using the system.

The numbers given in the article also at times seem to be a bit... broad. Such as light automatic or heavy automatic multiplying cost by 2, and semi-auto or single-shot multiplying cost by 1. I've been tempted to house rule it as 1 for single-shot, 1.25 for semi-automatic, 1.5 for light automatic, 2 for heavy automatic, and 2.5 for Gatling.
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Old 04-18-2020, 04:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

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Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
The numbers given in the article also at times seem to be a bit... broad. Such as light automatic or heavy automatic multiplying cost by 2, and semi-auto or single-shot multiplying cost by 1. I've been tempted to house rule it as 1 for single-shot, 1.25 for semi-automatic, 1.5 for light automatic, 2 for heavy automatic, and 2.5 for Gatling.
The_Ryujin has a blog article that helps adjust the generator for Rates of Fire other than 1, 3, 10, and 20. Might want to apply those.
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Old 04-18-2020, 04:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

I just did a quick run-down. Single-shot, Small focal array, Cannon configuration, 50d damage (like the TL10 one), and 10 TL10 non-rechargeable F-cells comes to 3,700 lbs, ST 140M, Shots 20(5), and range 40K/120K - which is close to the TL10 line. Adjusting for TL11 and 100d, like the listed blaster cannon, gives much different stats overall than UT: Range 160K/480K, weight 30,000 lbs, and ST 416M, whereas UT has Range 120K/360K, weight 4,000 lbs (identical to the lower TL cannon above it), and ST 160M (again, identical to the lower TL cannon above).

"identical to the lower TL cannon above" that does half the damage.

I think that's the key right there.
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Old 04-18-2020, 04:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

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Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
I just did a quick run-down. Single-shot, Small focal array, Cannon configuration, 50d damage (like the TL10 one), and 10 TL10 non-rechargeable F-cells comes to 3,700 lbs, ST 140M, Shots 20(5), and range 40K/120K - which is close to the TL10 line. Adjusting for TL11 and 100d, like the listed blaster cannon, gives much different stats overall than UT: Range 160K/480K, weight 30,000 lbs, and ST 416M, whereas UT has Range 120K/360K, weight 4,000 lbs (identical to the lower TL cannon above it), and ST 160M (again, identical to the lower TL cannon above).

"identical to the lower TL cannon above" that does half the damage.

I think that's the key right there.
Yeah, there may be an implicit rule not listed about increasing damage at higher tech levels. Does anyone know if the Basic Set or Ultra-Tech lists such a rule?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
The_Ryujin has a blog article that helps adjust the generator for Rates of Fire other than 1, 3, 10, and 20. Might want to apply those.
Thanks - do you know the article name?
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Old 04-18-2020, 05:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

funny; I've been working on this for my own setting all week.

I built a spreadsheet with the PY 3-37 rules and found a couple things;

Empty Weight stats; for Lasers and blasters match those in UT better if you change the basic weight factor from (Dice/3)^3 to the (Dice/4)^3 used for force beams.

Weight and Range from the Beam Design rules matched UT gear better after I added an additional Range modifier for form factor; Pistol, rifle, or cannon.

for weapon damage and weapon weights above 'man portable' ranges are only going to match inside an order of magnitude.

Stats in UT are heavily rounded.

Things work out best if you assume disposable power cells.

pre- TL11 lasers and blasters do not compete with ETC fire on a dice / pound basis, even if you use disposable power-cells. (which makes your logistics just as expensive.)
----------------

I originally wrote the spreadsheet because I wanted to see what TL10-11 lasers and blasters looked like in the 'dead-zone' of published weapon weights; the 100lb - 200lb weapons I'd call ''Robot Weapons"

I found that power-cells become the greatest part of weapon weight and bulk.

after that I kind of fell down a rabbit hole and played with curves, form factor and beam type modifiers, powercell density, and generally made a mess that 'looks like' my setting.
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Old 04-18-2020, 06:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

Sounds cool. Write it up and post it when you've got it finished? :)
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Old 04-18-2020, 06:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

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Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
Yeah, there may be an implicit rule not listed about increasing damage at higher tech levels. Does anyone know if the Basic Set or Ultra-Tech lists such a rule?

Thanks - do you know the article name?
I think he called it "Moar Dakka!" on his blog.

And by the by, I have my line of Sith and Wesson Blasters for you to look at.
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Old 04-18-2020, 08:34 PM   #10
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Default Re: Weighty problem when attempting to reproduce Blaster Cannon canon; Pyramid #3/37

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Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
I think he called it "Moar Dakka!" on his blog.

And by the by, I have my line of Sith and Wesson Blasters for you to look at.
Your descriptions are interesting and flavourful, but some of the stats seem to be missing. :)

Found it, I think:
https://gurb3d6.blogspot.com/2017/01/moar-dakka.html
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