[MA] Best dirty-fighting style for a callous weakling?

[PK]

Originally Posted by aesir23

I designed this style for a fantasy campaign, it might work for you with a little tweaking.

Gutter Fight 5
This style began was invented by the legendary King of Rags, lord of the beggars. He spent a lifetime learning to survive on the streets, eventually he began to pass on the myriad of skills and dirty tricks he picked up along the way. The motto of gutter fight is, “stay alive by any means necessary”. This often means doing as much damage as you can before running away.
Skills: Brawling, Knife, Running, Wrestling
Techniques: Ear Clap, Elbow Strike, Evade, Eye Gauging, Eye Rake, Head Butt, Knee Strike, Reverse Grip (Knife), Targeted Attack (Knee Strike/Groin), Trip, Uppercut
Cinematic Skills: Blind Fighting
Cinematic Techniques: none
Perks: Drunken Fighting, Improvised Weapon (Brawling), Improvised Weapon (knife), Skill Adaptation (Evade defaults to wrestling)

Optional Traits: Acrobatics, Climbing, Disguise, Hold Out, Pick-Pocket, Urban Survival

I'd definitely agree that this style fits what Molokh is looking for. Wrestling is a better fit than Judo IMO because of the ST bonus at high skill levels -- and the SA perk for Evade fits with Kromm's advice (buy Evade up!) I'd add TA (Knife Thrust/Eye) to the techniques as well, and Enhanced Dodge and Increased Basic Move to the optional traits. (For Molokh's needs, not for the style in general -- I think the style is nice as it is.)

And as everyone keeps saying, don't pass over Running. If you have a high DX, you might just need a point in it, but since it breaks ties if you and your pursuer are the same Move, it's not optional for a character who can't take a lot of abuse.

[Figleaf23]

I created a style for a slightly diminutive arachnoid race (posted here), which might add a perspective.

It relies on controlling the range of the encounter by use of long-reach weapons (spear and rope dart) and mobility (Evade, Push Off*), rendering the enemy helpless before closing (net, entanglement, Trip, Sweep), and attacks that establish a decisive advantage or end the fight (locks, chokes, disarming, targetted attacks).

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Molokh

On the other, it sounds as if the ST-dominant character is the 'one true way' to build combatants now. I hope that's an exaggeration . . . but is it?

Try it and see. Run some Man-To-Man fights where you pit characters of different ST scores (but same CP totals) against each other. Allow the lower ST characters to spend the extra points on different things that will improve their combat effectiveness. Make sure to do enough simulations to be statistically significant. Then report back :)

[Rocket Man]

To quote the old boxers' saying, all other things being equal, a good big man will beat a good little man. GURPS appears to reflect that -- which means that a little man's first priority in a fight (if he can't immediately escape) is to mae sure things don't stay equal.

In short: Don't Fight Fair. (And as a corollary, Don't Fight Unarmed -- that really makes it all about muscle!)

Aesir and Figleaf23 have some useful advice in that regard. But remember the corollary in Aesir's fighting style, underlined by several others: Do damage, create an opening, and run.

Overall, the best way for a small man to bring down a big man appears to be for the big man to have a club and the small man to have a Colt .45.....

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I didn't say that ST is the only thing that matters. What I said was that reducing ST below average significantly gimps a warrior. Warriors can get by on average or only slightly above-average ST if they have other factors like good DX, HT, and Basic Speed; advantages such as Combat Reflexes and Weapon Master; and/or high skill.

Note that this is precisely true in real life as well. By and large, size and strength matter in a "real" situation far more than people think. High skill offsets ST to a certain degree, but eventually you may find yourself trapped under someone heavy, or lifted off the ground (note that this is what happens to Buffy on a regular basis even in fiction) or dropped by that one lucky shot.

[Kromm]

What's key is realizing what it means to have DX cost twice as much as ST, all other abilities being equal. Consider:

Small Guy

50 points

ST 8 [-20]; DX 11 [20]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 11 [10].
Damage 1d-3/1d-2; BL 13 lbs.; HP 8 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 11 [0].
Basic Speed 5.50 [0]; Basic Move 5 [0]; Dodge 8; Parry 11.

Skills: Brawling (E) DX+6 [20]-17; Wrestling (A) DX+5 [20]-16.
Notes: Punch 1d-3, Kick 1d-2, Grappling ST 10.



Big Guy

50 points

ST 12 [20]; DX 9 [-20]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 11 [10].
Damage 1d-1/1d+2; BL 29 lbs.; HP 12 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 11 [0].
Basic Speed 5.00 [0]; Basic Move 5 [0]; Dodge 8; Parry 10.

Skills: Brawling (E) DX+6 [20]-15; Wrestling (A) DX+5 [20]-14.
Notes: Punch 1d-1, Kick 1d, Grappling ST 14.

Big Guy's disadvantages are -2 to hit and -1 to Parry relative to Small Guy, and not going first due to -0.50 Basic Speed. His advantages are +4 in Contests of ST, +4 swing damage, +2 thrust damage, and 50% higher injury thresholds. Without rebuilding Small Guy to use different skills and techniques, Small Guy simply can't afford to grapple with Big Guy, so he must strike. That's still not ideal, because if Big Guy grabs the striking limb (see Martial Arts for many ways this can happen), it's a short road to the limb being pulled out of its mooring and/or used as a handle for tossing/bashing Small Guy into things.

What Small Guy has done, in effect, is bet points on things like being good at Dancing, Driving, Pickpocket, and Piloting. Big Guy has bought abilities that are 100% combat-related, really. He's more of a combat monster by design.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Kromm

What's key is realizing what it means to have DX cost twice as much as ST, all other abilities being equal.

Of course, we can instead toss DX, and have:
Big Guy: ST 12(20), DX/IQ/HT 10, Brawling@DX+6(20)=16
Punch 1d-1, Kick 1d, Dodge 8, Parry 11
Small Guy: ST 8(-20), DX/IQ/HT 10, Brawling@DX+16(60)=26
Punch 1d-3, Kick 1d-2, Dodge 8, Parry 16

Small guy can use a rapid deceptive (-1) kick, and hit 1.1 times per round, or 0.48 if Big Guy retreats; his average damage per strike is 1.67, for a total average per round of 1.8 or 0.8. Big guy is probably best off just swinging for criticals and hits 0.11 times per round; his average damage per strike is 2.5, for a total of 0.28 per round. Pretty sure big guy loses that one.

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

Overall, the best way for a small man to bring down a big man appears to be for the big man to have a club and the small man to have a Colt .45.....

Never better evidened than Indiana Jones vs The big scimitar wielding egyptian.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Of course, we can instead toss DX, and have:
Big Guy: ST 12(20), DX/IQ/HT 10, Brawling@DX+6(20)=16
Punch 1d-1, Kick 1d, Dodge 8, Parry 11
Small Guy: ST 8(-20), DX/IQ/HT 10, Brawling@DX+16(60)=26
Punch 1d-3, Kick 1d-2, Dodge 8, Parry 16

Small guy can use a rapid deceptive (-1) kick, and hit 1.1 times per round, or 0.48 if Big Guy retreats; his average damage per strike is 1.67, for a total average per round of 1.8 or 0.8. Big guy is probably best off just swinging for criticals and hits 0.11 times per round; his average damage per strike is 2.5, for a total of 0.28 per round. Pretty sure big guy loses that one.

Big Guy just has to leverage this contest into something he'll win. Try for a grapple (Leg Grapple, even), risk a Riposte (since he can better afford to get hit) or something similar.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Big Guy just has to leverage this contest into something he'll win...

That's equally true of any combattant big or small.