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Old 10-09-2014, 11:49 PM   #851
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Frankly I would ignore that. No superhero can be around as long as Wolverine and pass through the hands of that many different writers without the occasional inconsistency.
yeah, and besides its only going to happen with Adamantium or Cosmic attacks.
The one could be an Achillies heal, the other just godlike power.
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Old 10-10-2014, 02:54 AM   #852
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
The wording seems somewhat odd... do basic Perception rolls count as a "task"? Logically I would not expect the two +4 bonuses in the cited text to stack, but the way it is worded, it almost sounds like it would (yet logically it shouldn't). Maybe it is just an English fail on my part? >_<
Yeah, the intention is for the bonus to count as though you had a +4 Acute. The bonuses do not stack. The +4 to Tracking assumes that you are using your enhanced olfaction to get the same bonus you would apply to your Per. The Discriminatory Senses entry in Powers makes it a bit clearer.
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Old 10-10-2014, 06:34 AM   #853
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Frankly I would ignore that. No superhero can be around as long as Wolverine and pass through the hands of that many different writers without the occasional inconsistency.
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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
yeah, and besides its only going to happen with Adamantium or Cosmic attacks.
The one could be an Achillies heal, the other just godlike power.
Why ignore what makes sense?

Adamantium is so durable as to be functionally "unbreakable" in the Marvel multiverse, or at least the chunk of it relevant to the discussion. Wolverine (at least most of the time) has a skeleton coated with the stuff in just the right way that his healing factor keeps him healthy and raring to go (instead of him dying from such a thing).

If we just want to hand wave it as the typical GM/player agreement where the GM isn't going to intentionally try to sever a limb or the like but the player isn't going to constantly try to leverage this trait (not that it seems overly ripe for abuse)... okay. Otherwise the one mainstream example we have of Wolverine losing a limb is Cyclops (Scott Summers) shooting it off via a high powered Optic Blast. I didn't find a write up for Scott on the thread, but I just did a quick search so let me know if he does have Cosmic on his Optic Blast. If he doesn't, it was simply raw power pulverizing the soft tissue...

...and that makes sense. Not that I want to reality check it, but an attack that destroyed the flesh on my bones could allow me to lose a limb without the actual bone being damaged (or at least not violently damaged). This ends up being kind of relevant as well, as it shows Wolverine's "plot armor"; when you read up on strategies to take down Wolverine (for competent characters making such things, at least), they focus on things like severing his head and moving it far enough from his body that there is no chance of it reconnecting.
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:13 AM   #854
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

Earth-295 (Age of Apocalypse) Cyclops and Havok supposedly had their powers boosted by Mister Sinister. Despite that, Weapon X (AoA Wolverine) should not have had a stump for a hand; adamantium is impervious to all kinetic damage, so his skeleton should have remained intact, and his regeneration should have regrown the stripped flesh.

Regarding what can kill Wolverine: drowning is a sure-fire method. His son tries a drowning trap. Logan/James has said that swimming with the skeleton is "like swimming with an anvil on your back". And oceans make him uneasy because he can't swim well and can kill him. He can tread water as seen after the shuttle crash when Jean "died".

My Earth-616 2000ish build for Wolvie gives him a phobia of deep water with a control roll of 15 and a non-RAW hybrid between Cannot Float and Incompetence:Swimming (-4 to swimming skill which he _can_ learn, but swimming takes quadruple fatigue)
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:00 AM   #855
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
Earth-295 (Age of Apocalypse) Cyclops and Havok supposedly had their powers boosted by Mister Sinister. Despite that, Weapon X (AoA Wolverine) should not have had a stump for a hand; adamantium is impervious to all kinetic damage, so his skeleton should have remained intact, and his regeneration should have regrown the stripped flesh.
Thanks for reminding me that in the AoA setting, Cyclops and Havok were actively augmented by Mr. Sinister; do you think that gave them some sort of Cosmic damage enhancement? If not, we still come back to the same issue: without flesh the bones in his hand are going to fall off. It is his bones alone that are coated; connective tissues between them are not. Since I haven't been as clear as intended, let me try to address that; even if we do treat the skeleton as invulnerable, the adamantium covered bones were not (presumably) destroyed, just blown off leaving a stump.

There is still the question of whether or not he has Regrowth and if he does, what are its limits? He may very well have Regrowth with a Limitation reflecting that if his skeleton goes, the limb won't regenerate properly. Lastly, adamantium is not impervious to all kinetic damage, merely highly resilient; both based on the source material and based on how GURPS (normally) handles things. Hence why I keep encouraging tbrock1031 to not portray it as such.
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:29 AM   #856
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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I didn't find a write up for Scott on the thread, but I just did a quick search so let me know if he does have Cosmic on his Optic Blast.
You didn't go back far enough ( ^^; ); post 11 is his entry. And no, he does not have Cosmic on his optic blast.

How his optic blast is statted out:
Optic Blast 8d (Crushing Attack; Accurate +4, +20%; Always On, Effects are Dangerous (Mitigator: Ruby Quartz Glasses or Visor, -60%), -16%; Cone, 3 yards, +80%; Damage Modifier: Double Knockback, +20%; Increased Range, x10, +30%; Jet, +0%; Ricochet, +10%; Selectivity (applies to Cone and Jet), +10%; Underwater, +20%; Variable, +5%; Mutant, -10%) [108].

Mind, he's only 18-19 in the Reboot, so it's not as powerful. I made him more skilled with making bank shots and narrowing the beam than I gave him raw power.
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:13 AM   #857
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

Perhaps Wolverine adamantium bones remained intact but with the tendons. muscles and other connective tissues destroyed his hand fell apart and couldn't regenerate (or was some how prevented from doing so he didn't grow malformed lump of flesh with no skeletal support)?

But yeah, he's been around for so long with his abilities altered and interpreted in so many different ways there probably isn't a definitive version of him. I remember when the character was first introduced his "Healing Factor" essentially meant with that with proper medical care anything that didn't kill him immediately he could recover from. Now he's basically immortal having been depicted regenerating in moments after being reduced to his metallic bones or in hours from a drop of blood.
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Old 10-10-2014, 12:21 PM   #858
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Perhaps Wolverine adamantium bones remained intact but with the tendons. muscles and other connective tissues destroyed his hand fell apart and couldn't regenerate (or was some how prevented from doing so he didn't grow malformed lump of flesh with no skeletal support)?

But yeah, he's been around for so long with his abilities altered and interpreted in so many different ways there probably isn't a definitive version of him. I remember when the character was first introduced his "Healing Factor" essentially meant with that with proper medical care anything that didn't kill him immediately he could recover from. Now he's basically immortal having been depicted regenerating in moments after being reduced to his metallic bones or in hours from a drop of blood.
Yeah, I'm going for a "happy medium erring on the side of taking time" with his healing factor. Fast: 1 HP/min with no Regrowth means that if he loses a limb, well, the limb is gone, but he'll recover from anything that doesn't kill him outright (-5xHP or more) in a matter of a few hours. His DR and IT:DR is also as much a part of the healing factor as it is his skeleton, as many injuries won't do as much damage to him right off.
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The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
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Old 10-10-2014, 12:56 PM   #859
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Yeah, I'm going for a "happy medium erring on the side of taking time" with his healing factor. Fast: 1 HP/min with no Regrowth means that if he loses a limb, well, the limb is gone,
With Unbreakable Bones he can't ever lose a limb.
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Old 10-10-2014, 01:24 PM   #860
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Why ignore what makes sense?

Adamantium is so durable as to be functionally "unbreakable" in the Marvel multiverse, or at least the chunk of it relevant to the discussion. Wolverine (at least most of the time) has a skeleton coated with the stuff in just the right way that his healing factor keeps him healthy and raring to go (instead of him dying from such a thing).

If we just want to hand wave it as the typical GM/player agreement where the GM isn't going to intentionally try to sever a limb or the like but the player isn't going to constantly try to leverage this trait (not that it seems overly ripe for abuse)... okay. Otherwise the one mainstream example we have of Wolverine losing a limb is Cyclops (Scott Summers) shooting it off via a high powered Optic Blast. I didn't find a write up for Scott on the thread, but I just did a quick search so let me know if he does have Cosmic on his Optic Blast. If he doesn't, it was simply raw power pulverizing the soft tissue...
Actually that's the kind of thing power stunting mechanics are intended to handle. Cyclops has shot Wolverine many times without being able to do something like that. In fact he can't normally do something like that because his eye beams only deliver blunt force trauma. They can mangle flesh but they won't strip it away.

But apart from that Unbreakable Bones doesn't keep characters from getting crippled. They just mean it takes more damage and it will never be permanent. So there's no issue anyway. Wolverine would regrow his arm after all.
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