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Old 09-14-2016, 05:46 PM   #1
Mithlas
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Default Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

There have been many discussions about the "proper" costs of various advantages and abilities. One of the common agreements is that many abilities do not have the same value in different genres of games.

I'm planning on running a globe-trotting somewhat cinematic sci-fi thriller with sporadic action, loosely based on XCom. As much for fair balance as for thought-experiment curiosity, what do you think the values of the advantages might be?

Some would not apply (Unkillable, Magery) as they violate the genre. Others like Wealth might have little value as any equipment with notable value is either so new that it's still being reverse-engineered or secret it's only issued by a Patron all players will end up with (although some of you might have better ideas for Wealth). The PCs will probably start as military scouts, so Blind or Bully would've been screened out before their characters finished pre-game backstory. I'm also trying to maximize role-playing and story, and encourage that by minimizing roll-play, so I'm trying to cut out things like social reaction and aging rolls.

Some like Alcohol Tolerance, Common Sense (which I'm giving to all players because this is my first time running and might need their help as much they'd want mine) cost little and would remain there, but others like Charisma might want to be changed to better fit the setting and simplified math. Others like Fit or Honest Face might be worth more than the standard '5'.

Abilities of uncertain value currently are: Ambidexterity [5], Fearlessness [2/level], Fit [5], Flexibility [5], High Manual Dexterity [5/level], Honest Face [5], Luck [15], Reputation [5/level], and Voice [5].

Last edited by Mithlas; 09-16-2016 at 01:54 AM. Reason: Clarifying information
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Old 09-14-2016, 06:23 PM   #2
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

By world-hopping, do you mean "planet hopping" or "universe hopping"?
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:00 PM   #3
Mithlas
 
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Default Re: Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

I should've said "globe trotting", none of my expectations involve leaving Earth (except perhaps as a quick mission to blow up an alien satellite or moon base).

Last edited by Mithlas; 09-14-2016 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Fixing typo
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:02 PM   #4
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

<edit>Oh, I see that these are your proposed new values?
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Originally Posted by Mithlas View Post
For now, I'm looking at: Ambidexterity [5], Fearlessness [2/level], Fit [5], Flexibility [5], High Manual Dexterity [5/level], Honest Face [5], Luck [15], Reputation [5/level], and Voice [5].
_Why_ are you looking at these Ads? Are they too expensive, too cheap or are you going to put them on the Template every character will use?

By the way, Honest Face is only 1pt and not 5. Or at least that's what it's worth if you play it the way it's written.
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Last edited by Fred Brackin; 09-14-2016 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Edited for reading comprehension failure
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:27 PM   #5
Gef
 
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Default Re: Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithlas View Post
For now, I'm looking at: Ambidexterity [5], Fearlessness [2/level], Fit [5], Flexibility [5], High Manual Dexterity [5/level], Honest Face [5], Luck [15], Reputation [5/level], and Voice [5].
Not sure why a perk, Honest Face, is worth 5. Really don't think you should cut the value of Voice in half; reaction modifiers are a big deal. Stack up +7, and you can get lots of people to do everything in their power to help you. Even with voice, you usually succeed with requests for information, and that's as good as having contacts. Before you dispense with the social aspect of the game, check this out on Douglas Cole's blog:

http://gamingballistic.blogspot.com/...lks-socal.html

It's a 4-part post, and I linked the last first because it in turn links the prior ones. Part 3 is the analysis of reaction rolls and shows their power.
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Old 09-14-2016, 08:50 PM   #6
McAllister
 
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Default Re: Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

Please don't let your players spend points on abilities that interact with social interaction if you're going to run it dicelessly. Please examine your desire to run diceless social interaction and either commit to it, letting your players know ahead of time that it's going to be exceedingly difficult for a normal player to play an especially glib character, or allow the characters to use their attributes in Reaction and Influence rolls as printed.
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Old 09-15-2016, 01:00 AM   #7
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

I don't even understand how not having Reaction Rolls results in making Honest Face worth 5x as much. Since the mechanical effect is an extremely limited +1 bonus to Acting (an Influence skill) it shouldn't even be in your game at all.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:52 AM   #8
Mithlas
 
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Default Re: Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

The values given are what I'm considering now (on the list of allowed advantages), only Common Sense and a rank of Luck are 'required' and hence given to everyone free.

The reason I believe Honest Face is worth more than the 1-point quirk it is in base is because the game will be Covert Ops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Set Characters
People who don’t know you will tend to pick you as the one to confide in, or not to pick you if they are looking for a potential criminal or troublemaker. You won’t be spotchecked by customs agents and the like unless they have another reason to suspect you
Something easing not being noticed when the general goal is to not be noticed would be more valuable even if reaction rolls are dropped. I was hoping on talking to the prospective players this weekend, but a work shuffle means it's going to be more than a week before I can next see any of them so character ideas and their interaction with the campaign will be on hold until then. I did look back at reaction rolls, and it only encouraged me to snip them from the game.

Voice would give a +1 to Diplomacy, Fast Talk, and maybe other social contests. Without reaction modifiers it's not worth that much. I've played games in 3 different systems with the group I plan on running this game (all of them as a player): pathfinder, shadowrun, and GURPS 4E. In all of them, I never remember a random or static social roll being ever noticed so I feel safe in throwing them out. I do remember Survival, creative uses of acrobatics, and various profession/crafting tests applied to things like shoring up a door holding up drug-crazed berserkers (in Shadowrun) and mundane utility (like Create Water putting out fires) all the time in the GURPS banestorm game. In another session of that GURPS game we used mining to burrow through a wall next to a magically locked door. They like to role play, laugh, and tinker with utility of any skill they can.
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Old 09-16-2016, 08:54 AM   #9
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithlas View Post
Voice would give a +1 to Diplomacy, Fast Talk, and maybe other social contests. Without reaction modifiers it's not worth that much..
You seem to be changing how certain Ads work more than you're just changing costs. At 10pts Voice gives a +2 to Diplomacy et al. If you're cutting that in half cutting the price in half makes more sense.
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Old 09-16-2016, 09:40 AM   #10
JoelSammallahti
 
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Default Re: Trait values in a sci-fi covert-ops game

Do you have the Action books? I would definitely start any project of paring down trait lists with what Action 1 suggests, and also check out the way that book handles Wealth.

As for changing the costs of traits, I think it's fine as long as you know the mechanical effect that trait's going to have in your campaign. For example, I might do away with shock penalties in a campaign I'm planning, and cut the cost of High Pain Threshold to match. Conversely, if Honest Face is going to be a bigger help in avoiding scrutiny than usual, by all means increase its price. In a high- or ultra-tech campaign where muscle-powered weapons are really marginal, I might even cut the cost of ST to 6/lvl and Striking ST to 1/lvl.
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