DFRPG running D&D 5e starting adventures

[namada]

Originally Posted by jackcelso

caravan to ein arris is better!!!

No, it's not better than anything. It's deeply flawed at the very least because a skill of 16 is considered exceptional & yet our two bandits have skills of 18, when they attack the caravan & the PC's try to defend it as "beginners" with skills of 14.

Originally Posted by restlessgriffin

Unfortunately there is no analogous GURPS Lite for Magic.

There is a GURPS LITE for Mgaic - either the 3E Lite version of GURPS, or GURPS Thaumatology, or GURPS Magic. But, accept that means rules-light, meaning there is a lot of GM adjudication. If you don't want lots of GM adjudication, you don't want rules-light. It's that simple.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by namada

No, it's not better than anything. It's deeply flawed at the very least because a skill of 16 is considered exceptional & yet our two bandits have skills of 18, when they attack the caravan & the PC's try to defend it as "beginners" with skills of 14.

What skill 18 bandits. All the brigands are 15 or 16, even the Brigand Chief.

There is a GURPS LITE for Mgaic - either the 3E Lite version of GURPS, or GURPS Thaumatology, or GURPS Magic. But, accept that means rules-light, meaning there is a lot of GM adjudication. If you don't want lots of GM adjudication, you don't want rules-light. It's that simple.

Magic and Thaumatology are no substitute for a Lite version of magic. The 3e Lite can sort of work but most new players won't be looking through 3e lite if trying to run a 4e adventure.

[restlessgriffin]

Originally Posted by Dalin

This afternoon I ran chapter five, "Paths of Peril," from Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk. Although the overall adventure is deeply flawed, this chapter was pretty fun and worked easily with DFRPG. It's basically a bunch of little mysteries that provide clues that lead the party to a secret lair with an evil cult. There are lots of opportunities to bring a variety of skills to bear. Indeed, I suspect that it plays better in DFRPG than D&D because of the wider variety of skills. The chapter is intended for levels 5-7, so it was a good fit for 250-point DFRPG characters.

So is that the part that picks up AFTER the origiginal Lost Mines adventure? I'm unclear how GURPS wider range of skills comes into play better than 5E? I can definitely see GURPS Advantages and especially Disadvnatages making for richer roleplaying. However, there aren't a lot of skills I think make a big difference. Especially as things liKe Area Knowledge aren't part of DFRPG. I think D&D 5e handles it with History but I might be wrong on that. I guess the separation of Survival (area type) makes a difference. What else?

I've only played a couple of sessions of 5E and read someone of the 5e basic rules and a bit of the players hand book along with the start set adventure and the essentials kit adventure.

I'd love to hear some details.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by restlessgriffin

So is that the part that picks up AFTER the origiginal Lost Mines adventure?

Yes, after the party returns to Phandalin from Wave Echo Cave. The new version includes a few hints along the way that there is more to come, but it's all pretty weak.

I'm unclear how GURPS wider range of skills comes into play better than 5E?

I enjoy the finer grained nature of GURPS skills. Skills that I recall coming up in the session included: acrobatics, brawling, carousing, cartography, climbing, diplomacy, fast-talk, hidden lore (elder things), hidden lore (undead), jumping, lifting, lip reading, merchant, naturalist, observation, poisons, research, scrounging, stealth, streetwise, swimming, thaumatology, theology, traps, and wrestling (plus regular melee and ranged weapon skills). I'm sure I'm missing some, too.

Clearly, the adventure is easily playable with 5e's set of skills; it was designed for that. It seemed to me, having only run it once with DFRPG, that the larger selection of skills meant that there were more ways to approach problems. The players could come up with interesting synergies and possibilities that weren't immediately obvious to me as the GM.

[restlessgriffin]

Originally Posted by Dalin

I enjoy the finer grained nature of GURPS skills. Skills that I recall coming up in the session included: acrobatics, brawling, carousing, cartography, climbing, diplomacy, fast-talk, hidden lore (elder things), hidden lore (undead), jumping, lifting, lip reading, merchant, naturalist, observation, poisons, research, scrounging, stealth, streetwise, swimming, thaumatology, theology, traps, and wrestling (plus regular melee and ranged weapon skills). I'm sure I'm missing some, too.

... with DFRPG, that the larger selection of skills meant that there were more ways to approach problems. The players could come up with interesting synergies and possibilities that weren't immediately obvious to me as the GM.

OK, one thing I like is using the languages. I note that 5E seems to just hand out a bunch of languages to all the characters but in DFRPG they cost points and you need to be intentional in chosing them at character creation. One thing I want to use is how to tell what a potion is. If the characters get a potion from Goblins, it is probably labeled in Goblin language. So if they can read Goblin then they no what it does. If not they need to do some analysis. There are 3 bottles recovered. One is clear with a red liquid, another is in a blue bottle, and the third is in a green bottle. They are labeled in a foreign script. Now if any of the PCs knows Goblin, not problem. Otherwise, it is rolling vs Alchemy and/or Herb Lore modified by rolls on senses smell/taste. Chests and doors are locked so Lockpicking or Forced Entry. Of course strong characters can just use brute force, but for chests maybe that leads to broken bottles for potions and poisons. I know some of the skills include Physiology (monster) which I found odd until I thought about it. A moster will have different body parts and someone knowing Physiology monster knows where the monsters weaknesses are -- internal organs, neck, where are the arm joints, where are the weak points between armor or tough skin, etc.

So OK, I can see the various richness GURPS DFRPG lends to approaching an adventure.

[johndallman]

that the larger selection of skills meant that there were more ways to approach problems. The players could come up with interesting synergies and possibilities that weren't immediately obvious to me as the GM.

Or even just respond differently to time pressure. A scene from the Pathfinder-under-DF campaign:

Thief, listening outside the side door of a potion shop as others knock loudly at the front, just after midnight. "I heard a trap door open and close! I'll pick the lock."
Knight, arriving at said door. "Too slow. Forced Entry."

[namada]

Originally Posted by corwyn

What skill 18 bandits. All the brigands are 15 or 16, even the Brigand Chief.

My mistake then. I checked & you're correct, there are no brigands with 18 skill, so I was just misremembering it.

Originally Posted by corwyn

Magic and Thaumatology are no substitute for a Lite version of magic. The 3e Lite can sort of work but most new players won't be looking through 3e lite if trying to run a 4e adventure.

The 3E lite is a very poor substitute. IIRC, there are only around 10 spells in there.

As for GURPS Magic, you've got Syntactic Magic on p202 and Symbol Magic on p205, which are both very rules-lite systems of magic. Complete alternatives to the standard system.

As for GURPS Thaumatology, it is probably the best option though, because it gives you the above, plus it also gives you Book/Path Magic, which is heavier on rules, but at least it's not 1,000+ spells you'd need to deal with - that's hard work for a new GURPS GM.

Edit - I really should have separated those responses. They're dealing with two completely different subjects.