Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-18-2021, 09:27 AM   #11
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Help With Hyperspace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
So we're looking at a 625,000 multiplier for a speed 50 gate, s?
Are we? My calculator says 50 x 50 x 50 is 125,000. So times are 5x slower than you figured. the multiplier for factor 20 gates is 15.6x slower than for factor 50.

That's a range of 5 days per LY down to 78 per LY. Even 3 weeks to Alpha C is a litle long for people traffic for tourism or business.

Then if you go back to that 200 LY figure I used previously that's 3 years to 48 years for factor 20 gates between average distance worlds.

I think you've got bigger problems than what hypermotivators weight. Deciding what your average separation between worlds is might be first. More optimistic distances are possible of course but how fast is nothing compared to how long.

You might consider jettisonning that cube factor thing too. It looks like complexity for the sake of complexity to me. You could more easily label gates with speeds betwen 1 and 15 or even in days per LY. Your PCs will be doign thsi amth soem day and there's no reason to amke it more complex than it has to be.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2021, 09:35 AM   #12
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Help With Hyperspace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Are we? My calculator says 50 x 50 x 50 is 125,000. So times are 5x slower than you figured. the multiplier for factor 20 gates is 15.6x slower than for factor 50.

That's a range of 5 days per LY down to 78 per LY. Even 3 weeks to Alpha C is a litle long for people traffic for tourism or business.
You're right, its 125,000, not 625,000. Three weeks to alpha centauri is a pretty hefty time, and that's the fast speed.


Quote:
I think you've got bigger problems than what hypermotivators weight. Deciding what your average separation between worlds is might be first. More optimistic distances are possible of course but how fast is nothing compared to how long.

I mean, the distance math is fun, but ultimately the distance between settlements is somewhat arbitrary and you can make it fit (within some restrictions). Knowing how big and expensive the gates are tells you about what size gate a community will have, and that could very well be important.


But what are the ulitmate goals for the setting?
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2021, 11:52 PM   #13
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Help With Hyperspace!

So first up, some bad news, my rough calculation on how much re-mass could be carried, this halves the max speed at TL8, no idea how it affects things at TL9
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
You're right, its 125,000, not 625,000. Three weeks to alpha centauri is a pretty hefty time, and that's the fast speed.
Yeah, for casual travel, at least by the standards of people used to modern air travel, it's slow, and I'm pretty sure it's slow compared to early ocean liners (I believe that Atlantic crossing was a week), but for trade and colonization it's doable.

You add in things like cyro-sleep or gene-mod hibernation and it's not so bad from a tourist perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I mean, the distance math is fun, but ultimately the distance between settlements is somewhat arbitrary and you can make it fit (within some restrictions). Knowing how big and expensive the gates are tells you about what size gate a community will have, and that could very well be important.
Here's the thing, this setup allows the GM to control very precisely how fast the PC's ships are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
But what are the ulitmate goals for the setting?
This isn't a solid idea, it's more an itch I've got to scratch so I can get back to other projects, one for GURPS I was working on before this grabbed my attention and wouldn't let go would allow you to play a Succubus (non-demonic) in DF or a similar game.

That said, the obvious answer if a space fighters game, like X-Wing books, Wing Commander, or even Space: Above And Beyond.
scc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2021, 08:08 AM   #14
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Help With Hyperspace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post

Here's the thing, this setup allows the GM to control very precisely how fast the PC's ships are.

.
First the GM needs to figure out how far the PCs are going.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2021, 08:56 AM   #15
DemiBenson
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Boston, Hub of the Universe!
Default Re: Help With Hyperspace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
So last, Hyperdrives, the hardest one to do. The system I'm going for most closely resembles Babylon 5 with a side order of Dune or BattleTech. There are two pieces of equipment that are related to hyperspace travel, the Hyperdrive, whichkeeps you in Hyperspace, and is mounted on vessels the size of modern cruisers; and the Hypermotivator, which allows you to access Hyperspace and is the size of a cruiser. Early on Hypermotivators can only be found in B5 style Jumpgates, which are still important later on simply because Jumpgates allow for faster travel. For the Hyperdrives I'll probably use existing Hyperdrives costs and size, but for Hypermotivators, well there are at least two factors that control them, the max tonnage that can pass through them and their speed factor, this speed factor is important because this cubed is how much faster vessel that used it is faster then it would be in real space, and it squared should probably be part of the equation, so this is where I really need help, any suggestions for how big one of these should be?
Based on this, and the earlier discussions, this makes me wonder about a few things, since having a fancy jumpgate seems like it’s a prerequisite to economic viability of an outlying system
  • Can Jumpgates be upgraded in-place? Or do outlying systems need to tear down the existing one and recycle that into a better Jumpgate? The latter means that upgrading is an expensive and rare event.
  • Is there a commercial company or colonial bureau of the government that sends out hyperspace-capable ships whose sole purpose is to setup jumpgates?
__________________
Demi Benson
DemiBenson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2021, 09:57 AM   #16
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Help With Hyperspace!

Ok, if size and relative speed of the hyperspace gates don't matter yet then that might explain why you're having trouble figuring out what they should be.



The simplest way to price hypermotivators is to give them a weight and a cost directly proportional to mass*speed factor.



I'd use hyper-drives that cost and weigh half of what vehicles say hyperdrives cost and weigh, and assign the rest of the weight to the hypermotivator on a "Typical" ship (the speed factor you want to use as the base for self-gated ships)


This is really simple, and any objections you have will be valuable information.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2021, 03:51 AM   #17
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Help With Hyperspace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiBenson View Post
Based on this, and the earlier discussions, this makes me wonder about a few things, since having a fancy jumpgate seems like it’s a prerequisite to economic viability of an outlying system
  • Can Jumpgates be upgraded in-place? Or do outlying systems need to tear down the existing one and recycle that into a better Jumpgate? The latter means that upgrading is an expensive and rare event.
The later, ancillary systems can be kept, but the working guts need replacement, and parts aren't made locally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiBenson View Post
  • Is there a commercial company or colonial bureau of the government that sends out hyperspace-capable ships whose sole purpose is to setup jumpgates?
Early on, sure, but later construction of gates is done by whoever stands to gain the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Ok, if size and relative speed of the hyperspace gates don't matter yet then that might explain why you're having trouble figuring out what they should be.

The simplest way to price hypermotivators is to give them a weight and a cost directly proportional to mass*speed factor.

I'd use hyper-drives that cost and weigh half of what vehicles say hyperdrives cost and weigh, and assign the rest of the weight to the hypermotivator on a "Typical" ship (the speed factor you want to use as the base for self-gated ships)

This is really simple, and any objections you have will be valuable information.
OK, time to clarify something, while Jumpgates are the main way ships get into hyperspace, many ships have their own internal hypermotivators to get them, and any escorts/companions, into hyperspace, however their hypermotivators are much weaker then that of a Jumpgate. Ships that carry hypermotivators are navel capital ships, exploration cruisers, and far traders who serve colonies that don't have Jumpgates yet.
scc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2021, 08:50 AM   #18
PTTG
 
PTTG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Default Re: Help With Hyperspace!

Great idea having combat speed be divorced from travel speed. Here's some alternative ways to cover that.

- Stutter Warp Drive. The ship can teleport rapidly, but only short distances. At high cyclic rates, this lets them move up to (x) ly/d, but the system is sensitive to interference. As a result, enemies can lock you to normal speeds with common, simple jammers.

- Hyperweb. An ancient network of micro-scale wormholes was laced throughout the galaxy by some precursors. Navigating this mesh is a simple matter of inflating these wormholes long enough to pass through and making your way along the network. It's easy! As long as the next wormhole you need to go through isn't being blockaded by a foe...

- Accellerator Fields. Once you're moving in the right direction, you often just want to go faster. Using a timelike curve exponentiator, it is possible to essentially give yourself a nonlinear relationship with time. You aren't going any faster from your perspective, and you don't accelerate, but you complete your trip in a tiny fraction of the time. Anyone else you encounter is still at the same time-speed as you, though.

- Stasis Generator. If you can't speed up time, slow down yourself! By enveloping the ship with a time bubble, you slow your perceived time rate and zip to your destination subjectively soon. You should probably turn this off if you get in a fight, though.
PTTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.