Warriors of Haunden (IC)

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by ericthered

from the relevant post:

OOC:

As my response on this is on the long side (as usual), posted it in the Warriors of Haunden thread.

IC:

Anoras (to the Elders with Cassandra): "As to the prisoners, I believe Cassandra agrees with me on this. Holidor said they are ours, Cassandra's and mine. But Holidor is not Wetterhod.

"Again, after the sorcerer who had them under orders died, these prisoners did not attack us but surrended peacefully. Let us be truthful here. Would we blame them for following orders if they had been given them by Haunden?

"So here's my suggestion. I can speak Venasir as well as a native. So we can use them as warrior-servants, and teach them the ways of Haunden. And as they can speak Venasir, some of them might help in our building diplomatic relations between Haunden and Holidor. And with you as Elders, our village of Wetterhod can lead the way!"

[Kalzazz]

"Well. Uhm. Not all Venasir? Surely Shadowmask is though! Uh who do we raid then?

Are we sure these guys are that good? They didn't kill us after all!"

[Alden Loveshade]

Anoras: "Cassandra, I'm actually not sure if I'd consider ShadowMask a villain. He of course wasn't the villainous sorcerer who attacked us a couple of generations ago. So he may be simply following what he raised with. As did we when we made our recent raid for food.

"ShadowMask did speak of peace between us and thanked us. He even admitted to me, a Haunden, that his thinking had been wrong. That's not something most Haunden would expect from a sorcerer.

"There are stories that not all sorcerers are bad. Magic can affect different people differently. And there are different types of magic.

"So we will see what we will see."

[ericthered]

Elder: "You know better than any what sorcery does to a mind, twisting it and corrupting it until it is filled with only greed and hate. That is why we are always at war with the Venesir: because their sorcerers constantly work evil against everyone around them, even their own people."

Second Elder: "But Shadowmask said something about peace? That is remarkable. Under what terms? And he said it himself?"

Elder: "I would not begrudge the prisoners had they been working under the Lord of Holidor. But they instead followed sorcerers, and not even Shadowmask, but these wandering agents of evil. They are more akin to bandits than to soldiers. And we would execute even Haunden Bandits should they attack Wetterhod."

Second Elder: "Why do we need emissaries with the Holdior? surely they will not give up the stolen land without a fight. And who will vouch for these warriors? Will you stake your life on their good behavior?"


Elder: "What stories of good magic? I know of none in our tradition, outside of the acts of the gods."

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Elder: "You know better than any what sorcery does to a mind, twisting it and corrupting it until it is filled with only greed and hate. That is why we are always at war with the Venesir: because their sorcerers constantly work evil against everyone around them, even their own people."

OOC:

Anoras would of course know better; I wouldn't. That's why I had her say, "There are stories that not all sorcerers are bad." I figured "stories" was vague enough it could range from history and verified accounts to fable.

But ShadowMask spoke very differently than the other sorcerers. So I (and Anoras) suspect he is not the same.

IC:

Originally Posted by ericthered

Second Elder: "But Shadowmask said something about peace? That is remarkable. Under what terms? And he said it himself?"

Anoras: "Elder, he said it himself. At the time, he implied peace could be if things stay as they are. From what Cassandra said, we were forgiven for taking goats even before the Venasir rebels attacked.

"But that was at that time. Now ShadowMask may have learned that just two or three Haunden killed three sorcerers. And he and his people may be worried about birdpaux for which only Haunden has the cure. (I talked to Rhiannon about that.) And about there being a ShadowMask impersonator. And they all know that Haunden came to help them--and was a big help. With Cassandra warning them with the sign I made, the rebels didn't make it to Holidor. Without our help, and that of the late Thad, their losses could have been much greater."

Originally Posted by ericthered

Elder: "I would not begrudge the prisoners had they been working under the Lord of Holidor. But they instead followed sorcerers, and not even Shadowmask, but these wandering agents of evil. They are more akin to bandits than to soldiers. And we would execute even Haunden Bandits should they attack Wetterhod."

"Elder, such Haunden bandits would not have been under orders of evil sorcerers. Those are sorcerers who could destroy them and their families. And then turn their bones into skeletal monsters to attack innocent people.

"And when we Haunden took goats, did we not look like bandits? People may do what they need to do for the survival of themselves and their loved ones."

Originally Posted by ericthered

Second Elder: "Why do we need emissaries with the Holdior? surely they will not give up the stolen land without a fight. And who will vouch for these warriors? Will you stake your life on their good behavior?"

"Elder, the fight has already happened. Holidor knows it could have been taken if not for Haunden.

"As for the warriors, I only know what I've told you. But they know if they try to escape, they will have no place to go. And Haunden and Holidor may both be after them. And they were with me when I with Cassandra led them to where I left my possessions, and to Stripes's camp, and back here. They know the Haunden can track at a level the Venasir cannot. To try to escape is to die. I will make sure they understand that."

Elder: "What stories of good magic? I know of none in our tradition, outside of the acts of the gods."

Anoras will tell what she knows.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade

OOC:

Anoras would of course know better; I wouldn't. That's why I had her say, "There are stories that not all sorcerers are bad." I figured "stories" was vague enough it could range from history and verified accounts to fable.

But ShadowMask spoke very differently than the other sorcerers. So I (and Anoras) suspect he is not the same.
...

Anoras will tell what she knows.

You're looking at minor variants of fables and stealing stories from the Haunden. I think I've been very consistent with "Sorcery changes how you think".



Shadowmask did indeed show gratitude, but you know for sure he uses the mind-effecting brand of magic.

Anoras: "Elder, he said it himself. At the time, he implied peace could be if things stay as they are. From what Cassandra said, we were forgiven for taking goats even before the Venasir rebels attacked.

Elder: "He offered peace if we simply abandon our claim to our stolen lands? That... is insultingly little but possibly meaningful."


Elder2: "What if that allows us to use the whole forest without fear? It could double the size of our hunting grounds"


Elder: "But we would then give up the claim to our lands."


Elder2: "Right now that is merely an excuse to raid. And we don't have to give up the claim, merely halt the raids. The land remains stolen, we simply have a truce."

"But that was at that time. Now ShadowMask may have learned that just two or three Haunden killed three sorcerers. And he and his people may be worried about birdpaux for which only Haunden has the cure. (I talked to Rhiannon about that.) And about there being a ShadowMask impersonator. And they all know that Haunden came to help them--and was a big help. With Cassandra warning them with the sign I made, the rebels didn't make it to Holidor. Without our help, and that of the late Thad, their losses could have been much greater."

Elder: "Isolated sorcerers. One in battle with Holidor allies, and one through trickery. Unless you think you can go kill Shadowmax right now. Do you think you could?"

"Elder, such Haunden bandits would not have been under orders of evil sorcerers. Those are sorcerers who could destroy them and their families. And then turn their bones into skeletal monsters to attack innocent people.

Elder: "Working with scorcerors is all the more reason to slay them. I do not think Sorcerers need to resort to such threats to gain allies among the Venasir. The Venasir tolerate beings of evil. They are slavers, fight among themselves, and sacrifice captives for evil power! A sorcerer would not have difficulty finding thugs and ruffians among such people"



Elder 2: "But you can of course ask them why they joined, can you not? See if they even care to muster a lie. They are from far away and will not know what virtues we prize."

"And when we Haunden took goats, did we not look like bandits? People may do what they need to do for the survival of themselves and their loved ones."

Elder 2: "Do you honestly compare stealing goats from people who stole your land to kidnapping complete strangers for ritual sacrifice?"

"Elder, the fight has already happened. Holidor knows it could have been taken if not for Haunden.

Elder: "Then we should have negotiated then and there. I have little trust in the mere gratitude of Holidor."

"As for the warriors, I only know what I've told you. But they know if they try to escape, they will have no place to go. And Haunden and Holidor may both be after them. And they were with me when I with Cassandra led them to where I left my possessions, and to Stripes's camp, and back here. They know the Haunden can track at a level the Venasir cannot. To try to escape is to die. I will make sure they understand that."

Elder: "then you are vouching for your ability to control them with your life? If you wish to spare them, you may, but someone must guarantee their behavior and pay for any crimes they commit."

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I think I've been very consistent with "Sorcery changes how you think".

Shadowmask did indeed show gratitude, but you know for sure he uses the mind-effecting brand of magic.

I did get that. But in our world and in lots of fictional worlds, lots of things can change how one thinks. And many medications and other substances can affect the mind. But they don't all affect thinking in every person the same way. (Precedents specifically with magic include the Oz books, Harry Potter series, The Lord of the Rings, etc.)

Going by in-game evidence, Anoras (and I) noticed ShadowMask gave thanks to what were his enemies. And he spoke of living in peace. And he admitted he made a mistake in his thinking. That's very different than how the other sorcerers spoke. So I believe she (and I) has good reason to believe he thinks differently than Wings, Fireball, Stripes, and the sorcerer who attacked Haunden two generations ago. And the elders agree it is possibly meaningful.

In any case, Anoras gave her input. She had (stubbornly) insisted the Elders would decide. She'll stick with that.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Elder: "then you are vouching for your ability to control them with your life? If you wish to spare them, you may, but someone must guarantee their behavior and pay for any crimes they commit."

Anoras: "Elders, I will discuss this with Cassandra, and we will discuss it with others." (Her teacher Rhiannon, her father Mileno, her uncle Old man Trendil and also Belansi (both shrewd). And, as appropriate after some advice, the prisoners.)

Anoras will see what Cassandra and the others mentioned above say.

[Kalzazz]

"Like I don't mind whatever, but I'm not like going to take responsibility for them like going rogue or not. I still don't know who we are supposed to raid now though"

[ericthered]

Oh boy, NPC advice

Her teacher Rhiannon

Is in shock over finding out her husband is a sorcerer and was attacking the village. She says she doesn't know what to think. Would having more warriors prevent this next time?

her father Mileno,

"You will do what you want to do. You always do. But tell me why you think these warriors are worth it. And let me ask you, if you had to get rid of one of them, which one would it be? and if you could only keep one, which one? They are not all the same. One may be much more or less worthy than the others."

her uncle Old man Trendil

"I suppose they've hurt me as much as anyone in the village. It was really the sorcerers, I get it, but the sorcerers barely touched us. They shrieked orders, and those thugs obeyed. And as soon as the thugs saw the sorceror go down, they turned and fled or surrendered.

I think they're selfish, only in it for themselves, ready to turn on you as soon as you loose power. I would not stake my life on their good behavior.

and also Belansi (both shrewd).

"If you can make your authority stick, it would be a great boon for the village and for yourself. But its all about if you can make your authority stick. Do you think you can take five Venasir Thugs and turn them into respectable Haunden? And are you willing to kill the ones who won't?"

And, as appropriate after some advice, the prisoners

Let me handle that next post.

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

"Like I don't mind whatever, but I'm not like going to take responsibility for them like going rogue or not. I still don't know who we are supposed to raid now though"

Anoras (to Cassandra): "The elders have ideas. We may either be able to negotiate to get our land back, or be able to use the whole forest! Either way, we would not have to raid again."


Anoras (to each person she talked to): "Thank you for your suggestions. I will talk to the prisoners and see what I can learn from them. I still think they are highly unlikely to try to escape when they have no place to go. And they know if any crime is committed, they would be the first suspects."