Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by kenclary

Also at least one version of Shadowrun, iirc.

Mostly Shadowrun just gave you one action per 10 initiative, but I do vaguely remember a few things that adjusted initiative by 5.

The way Feng Shui worked was a more pure, though. The way it worked was:

You rolled initiative -- generally 1d6+stat, where stat probably ranged from 5-10 (this is not ideal). People acted in order from highest initiative to lowest, and every time you took an action you reduced your initiative by the cost of that action (so you acted multiple times per turn). It generally took 3 initiative to make an attack, though certain special abilities changed that, and you could reduce that to 2 by taking a -2 penalty, 1 by taking a -5 penalty (die rolling was 2d6, both exploding, one positive, one negative, so -5 was a lot). You could also aim (spend 1-3 initiative to get +1-3 on an attack). There were other specialized actions with different cost; usually particularly fast activation abilities cost 1. The target could also spend 1 point of initiative (even if their action wasn't up yet) to get a bonus to defense; this was generally worth it in one on one, but ate up all your actions if multiple mooks were attacking you.

It was a system with a fair number of flaws, but it also had some interesting ideas.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by kenclary

Also at least one version of Shadowrun, iirc.

Shadowrun had a simple version where you took your first action at your highest number and then counted down 10 places and acted again. Repeat until you act at below 10.

I think I remember a supers game that worked this way too but the name escapes me at the moment.

The really similar thing I know of is Chivalry & Sorcery from version 3 onward. You calculate your "Action Points" and then start spending APs to perform actions until you run out of APs.

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by whswhs

How is that to be kept track of?

Suppose that X and Y are fighting, and X has Velocity 10, and Y has Velocity 9. Velocity 9 gives one action per 1.11 seconds.

Second 1: X acts; Y does not.
Second 2: Y acts at .11 seconds; X acts at end.
Second 3: Y acts at .22 seconds; X acts at end.
Second 4: Y acts at .33 seconds; X acts at end.

... and so on, till second 11, when Y acts at .99 seconds and X at the end—or when you round Y up, and X and Y act simultaneously?

It seems as if you are going to be doing a lot of bookkeeping to keep track of who acts when. There's a reason that RPGs other than GURPS split combat into discrete rounds/turns (for example, Champions has a 12-second span of time, in which Speed 1 lets you act on phase 7, Speed 2 on phases 6 and 12, Speed 3 on phases 4, 8, and 12, and so on). It seems as if you would be adding a lot to the GM's load.

It also seems as if, in every second after the first, the slower fighter actually acts before the faster one.

Or do you want to segment combat into, say, centiseconds, and count off: .01, .02, .03, .04, .05, ... ?

The idea is to make it all into an app; you just type in the number of fighters and their respective Velocities, and the system do all the unpractical math. What will show will just be the actions orders. Than (hopefully) when it's your time to act, you choose a maneuver, and said maneuver could go a little faster or slower - which would also be automatically calculated.

So, all you would have to do would be to select over the screen the maneuver you'll execute - or use a ranged weapon, whatever, and those options would show in a single screen. You press, and the system tells which one goes next.

This would also open up the possibility to have a new trait for weapons, some sort of "Speed Modifier" or whatever.

As for "after acting twice in a single second, the slower guy will always act first", that's not a problem because there wouldnt really be a "turn" of combat" just sequence of actions, and there would not be a division of time; each part takes as long as it takes to do their thing. Keeping track of the seconds would just be for having a notion of how long the battle takes, but it truly would no longer have any influence. Granted, 99.99% of humans will still be very very close to the 1 second mark, and Velocities of 11.23 vs 10.52 are entirely possible. Division of time is not necessary, the system will calculate it all and just return the sequence. Im building a sheet to use as a basis for an app, and even that would be enough, but the commodity of not having to constantly change entries on a google sheet or excel table would greatly improve it's use. Now, I do have a problem of time, like I always do I've involved myself in some 20 different RPG personal projects, Im trying to develop my personal taste shamans, Im working on a final set of Alternate Attributes that pleases me, I still need to finish my adaptation of Wraith the Oblivion for Gurps but for some reason I developed "writters block", and every time I look at that I get sick and dont wanna do it, but I have to, and now Im also devoting my energies to create yet another sheet for Realm Management, with greatly expanded rules from the Gurps supplement, which I intend to put to full use on my next Fantasy game, and that's the project that is my focus right now. I wasnt even thinking about Velocity, that was a project of mine from years ago, which a friend of mine ressurected asking me to explain it a little because he just remembered, and he wanted to do something similar. And my brain is obscessive, when I begin something I cant get it off my brain, which is why Im hear, and I gotta say, Im glad I did it because it's been an improvement from previous attempts.

But I cant get my Realm Management out of my head; my spreedshets are almost done, Im fine tuning the details and I'll do some play tests; after that I'll see if my friend (who is in Asia right now, all the way across half of the globe) can help me breath life to those two ideas.

I just hope we can do it

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Shadowrun had a simple version where you took your first action at your highest number and then counted down 10 places and acted again. Repeat until you act at below 10.

I think I remember a supers game that worked this way too but the name escapes me at the moment.

The really similar thing I know of is Chivalry & Sorcery from version 3 onward. You calculate your "Action Points" and then start spending APs to perform actions until you run out of APs.

The game Scion also has a system of Ticks, each "turn" has 8 "ticks" and each one of your actions cost a certain amount of ticks - usually 4 or 5. So, each player had a wheel divided in 8 to mark their tick count. After 8 ticks or a "turn", you would start already from the tick count before - so, if you did 1 action of 4 ticks and 1 action of 5 ticks in the previous turn, now you're just 1 tick away from acting again.

There were some severe limits thou; first of all, you play as the Scion of a God, and yes you can become a God yourself (maybe, someday). Who knows, maybe even dethroning Zeus. Anyway, the thing is, the powers on that are absolutely world shaking - just imagine playing like a literal God and exchanging punches with Chronos or Fenrir or Mikakaboshi or helping Ra keep Apophis at bay. Anyway, this means that very, very fast, you get to become so fast as to have all of your actions to cost just a single tick, after which there's no more progression and frankly, everybody from Demi-God to above simply break the system by always acting on every single tick.

That idea thou gave me the idea "what if the Wheel was bigger? Oh, I know, if I can make a Least Common Multiple, I could create a wheel any size I'd like, because now all fractions would matter

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The really similar thing I know of is Chivalry & Sorcery from version 3 onward. You calculate your "Action Points" and then start spending APs to perform actions until you run out of APs.

Action point systems are typically "you can spend them all at once"; it doesn't interleave actions.

I think the purest example of what I'm thinking of is the board game Red November (FFG actually has the rules up on the web).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Action point systems are typically "you can spend them all at once"; it doesn't interleave actions.

.

That's not how C&S 3+ works. You start at the highest quantity of APs present (26 maybe) and the initiative leader declares an action (say an attack for 4 AP). That action doesn't happen until the AP track is followed down to 22.

Meanwhile the second place guy in the initiative order declres his action whihc happens after the relevant number of AP have been counted off.

So the first attack happens at 22 and at 21 the leader can declare another action.

If you're attacked and want to do an active defense your declared actions take a 2 AP penalty.