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Old 01-23-2015, 02:50 PM   #61
Anders
 
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Default Re: Charlemagne's Paladins - roleplaying in the 8th century

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It is a logical impossibility to prove a negative. You need to do a basic course in history. It teaches the fundamentals of text analysis, argument formulation, and what actually qualifies as "evidence". Right now, based on the current evidence, the only reasonable conclusion is that there was no viking lamellar. If additional evidence is discovered in the future then the subject should be revisited.
But surely there must be room for speculation in hypothesis generation? It's reasonable to search for evidence that Vikings used lamellar armor, it is not reasonable to search for evidence that they visited the moon. The unbelievability factor is larger for the second proposition.
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:53 PM   #62
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Default Re: Charlemagne's Paladins - roleplaying in the 8th century

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But surely there must be room for speculation in hypothesis generation? It's reasonable to search for evidence that Vikings used lamellar armor
We've already done this. There isn't any. The only lamellar found in Scandinavia during the time in question is at Birka. It has been shown that the armour was Central Asian or Tibetan in style, that there were a lot of other foreign items found in the same area of the site, and that there were a lot of foreigners at Birka at the time. The logical conclusion is that this armour was not worn by a Scandinavian. There are no physical remains of viking lamellar, no descriptions in the texts, and no illustrations. How do you build a hypothesis without evidence?
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:01 PM   #63
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Default Re: Charlemagne's Paladins - roleplaying in the 8th century

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Using your logic this is irrelevant. ".
I didn´t say they did, must or such i wrote it was possible
Correct me if i´m wrong, the varangians/vikings traded with the bycanteans, they traveled to the mediterrean , fought in their armies, in a Special Corps.

The bycanteans in this time produced lamellar armour, is it therefore absolutly impossible that one or more of These varangians or vikings got a lamellar armour?
Trade, Loot, booty,

I think this would be very implausible
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:04 PM   #64
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Default Re: Charlemagne's Paladins - roleplaying in the 8th century

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I didn´t say they did, must or such i wrote it was possible
Correct me if i´m wrong, the varangians/vikings traded with the bycanteans, they traveled to the mediterrean , fought in their armies, in a Special Corps.

The bycanteans in this time produced lamellar armour, is it therefore absolutly impossible that one or more of These varangians or vikings got a lamellar armour?
Trade, Loot, booty,

I think this would be very implausible
Of course it is possible. How is this relevant? History is studied using evidence. You don't convict someone of murder simply because it was possible that he did it. You collect the evidence, construct a hypothesis that fits the evidence, and present a coherent argument.
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:38 PM   #65
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Default Re: Charlemagne's Paladins - roleplaying in the 8th century

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We've already done this. There isn't any. The only lamellar found in Scandinavia during the time in question is at Birka. It has been shown that the armour was Central Asian or Tibetan in style, that there were a lot of other foreign items found in the same area of the site, and that there were a lot of foreigners at Birka at the time. The logical conclusion is that this armour was not worn by a Scandinavian. There are no physical remains of viking lamellar, no descriptions in the texts, and no illustrations. How do you build a hypothesis without evidence?
Oh, building hypotheses is easy. Testing them, now that's hard. :) Anyway, this doesn't get us closer to Charlemagne and his paladins.
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:58 PM   #66
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Default Re: Charlemagne's Paladins - roleplaying in the 8th century

I would use his real-life bishops as a paladin corps. They even had the "convert or die" attitude when they moved into a recently conquered region.
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Old 01-24-2015, 01:56 AM   #67
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Of course it is possible. How is this relevant? History is studied using evidence. .
Oh, my bad excuse me!
I thought we were discussing a rpg game in a rpg Forum.

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They even had the "convert or die" attitude
any proof of this
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Old 01-24-2015, 02:02 AM   #68
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Default Re: Charlemagne's Paladins - roleplaying in the 8th century

Sword-dancer, please take it to PM. This is not the proper thread for epistemology, interesting as that may be.

I read somewhere that Carolingian knights were really mounted heavy infantry, using their horses to get around on the battlefield but fighting on foot. Does anyone know if this is true?
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Old 01-24-2015, 04:31 AM   #69
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I read somewhere that Carolingian knights were really mounted heavy infantry, using their horses to get around on the battlefield but fighting on foot. Does anyone know if this is true?
The relevant texts, such as the chansons, suggest that they charged with mounted lances.
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Old 01-24-2015, 05:39 AM   #70
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Default Re: Charlemagne's Paladins - roleplaying in the 8th century

Aren't they from the chivalric era, though? I find it hard to believe that they were going for historical accuracy. Besides, they didn't get war saddles until they had taken the Avar fortress, did they?
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