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Old 03-09-2017, 08:28 AM   #1
giggioz
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Default Modeling a Giant: vertical knockback.

I want to model some features for a giant creature.

First of all i want him to punch/kick in a way he makes literally *fly* his targets.

It should be a sort of a double knockback enhancement but i want to cause the victim falling damage too.


In this article Kromm says


Quote:
If that just doesn't work for you, look at Modifying ST-Based Damage (Powers, p. 146). Double Knockback, +20% should do the trick. For instance, a super with ST 37 would have a thrust damage of 4d. That would cost 20 points as a crushing attack. With a +20% modifier, the point cost for adding Double Knockback would be a whopping 4 points. With that, when the character punched someone, he would do around 4d of damage, but this would be doubled solely for the purpose of finding knockback (Powers, p. 101). Thus, a roll of 14 on the dice would inflict 14 points of damage but do knockback as for 28 points of damage.
Thanks to this i have now the rules to design it as a double knockback hit but what about the *flying* mode? :)

The closest resource i've found so far about vertical knockback is this

Side question:

A giant, like any other combatant, can kick. If he kicks and fails he can fall.
Usually a man does not take damage from this fall but... what about a giant?
I could not find any reference to this topic.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:11 AM   #2
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Modeling a Giant: vertical knockback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giggioz View Post
I want to model some features for a giant creature.

First of all i want him to punch/kick in a way he makes literally *fly* his targets.

It should be a sort of a double knockback enhancement but i want to cause the victim falling damage too.


In this article Kromm says




Thanks to this i have now the rules to design it as a double knockback hit but what about the *flying* mode? :)

The closest resource i've found so far about vertical knockback is this

Honestly unless you're going to give some extra effect for the person actually leaving the ground while being knocked back, I'd just say that upon suffering a certain amount of knock back distance you leave the ground as part of it and treat it as a special effect.


However if you are saying the giant is specifically going for height as well as distance, than make it some kind of giant golf strike technique, and on a successful hit have the target also suffer damage from what ever ratio height to knock back distance that suits you. 1:2 maybe even 1:1!

Ultimately I wouldn't worry about the cost of this extra effect as the actual extra damage inflicted by the fall will be swamped by the damage of the blow itself even with an add on like double knockback.

You'd have to consider how it might effect falling over though!


Quote:
Originally Posted by giggioz View Post
Side question:

A giant, like any other combatant, can kick. If he kicks and fails he can fall.
Usually a man does not take damage from this fall but... what about a giant?
I could not find any reference to this topic.

Thanks in advance!
Honestly the idea of humanoid giant is already Bio-mechanically impossible, if you wanted to include the realistic impact of a SM5 giant falling from a kick, you have to consider it will unable to support it's own weight anyway. (Much less kick in the first place)

However here's a recent thread that had some stuff on falling damage and big creatures, and falling from failed kick

cheers

TD

Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-09-2017 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:24 AM   #3
giggioz
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Default Re: Modeling a Giant: vertical knockback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
However if you are saying the giant is specifically going for height as well as distance, than make it some kind of giant golf strike technique, and on a successful hit have the target also suffer damage from what ever ratio height to knock back distance that suits you. 1:2 maybe even 1:1!

Ultimately I wouldn't worry about the cost of this extra effect as the actual extra damage inflicted by the fall will be swamped by the damage of the blow itself even with an add on like double knockback.
In the chat Slacker was very helpful and proposed this :

"I recall a Krommpost about alternative uses of knockback, the specific one in question being reversed knockback (towards you), being worth +20% as an option. Since this does damage, you could rule it as +30%, like Overhead, in addition to its increased mobility (you can shove someone over a 15' wall, or up a story, etc.)."

I like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
Honestly the idea of humanoid giant is already Bio-mechanically impossible, if you wanted to include the realistic impact of a SM5 giant falling from a kick, you have to consider it will unable to support it's own weight anyway. (much less kick in the fort place)

However here's a recent thread that had some stuff on falling damage and big creatures, and falling from failed kick

cheers

TD
I'll take a look, thanks.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:37 AM   #4
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Default Re: Modeling a Giant: vertical knockback.

I don't think you really need a special enhancement to kick something upwards. This is something anyone should be able to do - if a standard fighter wants to kick a pixie and send them flying, that should be doable. I'd make this a new technique, instead. Call it "Punting", have it default to Karate-2 or Brawling-2, and, when you use it, have it deliver half the knockback in an upwards direction, as well as the full normal knockback horizontally. You can still give the giants the double knockback on their ST, just have them use this technique and apply the doubled knockback to the upwards distance as well.
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Old 03-09-2017, 12:26 PM   #5
giggioz
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Default Re: Modeling a Giant: vertical knockback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I don't think you really need a special enhancement to kick something upwards. This is something anyone should be able to do - if a standard fighter wants to kick a pixie and send them flying, that should be doable. I'd make this a new technique, instead. Call it "Punting", have it default to Karate-2 or Brawling-2, and, when you use it, have it deliver half the knockback in an upwards direction, as well as the full normal knockback horizontally. You can still give the giants the double knockback on their ST, just have them use this technique and apply the doubled knockback to the upwards distance as well.
That's lovely.

I took the suggestion to stat my giant, i started from here

I added some features and marked them in red, please give me some feedback.

Punter Giant :)

ST: 25 HP: 25 Speed: 5.25
DX: 9 Will: 10 Move: 7
IQ: 8 Per: 10 Weight: 1,100 lbs.
HT: 12 FP: 12 SM: +1
Dodge: 8 Parry: 9 DR: 3
Maul (13): 5d+5 crushing Reach 1-3*.
Rock (11): 2d+2 crushing Range -/30.
Kick (13): 5d crushing Reach C-1

Traits:
Striking ST 20 (Kicks Only, -60%) [60]
Exceptional Kicks: Kicks cause Double Knockback (ST-Based Attack [5])
Acute Hearing 1
Acute Vision 3
Bad Temper (12)
DR 2 (Tough Skin)
Extended Lifespan 3
High Pain Threshold
Night Vision 3
Social Stigma (Savage)
Stubbornness.

Skills:
Parry Missile Weapons-11
Throwing-11
Two-Handed Axe/Mace-13
Brawling-13


Notes: Equipment includes a fur tunic (SM +1, $56.25, 4.5 lbs.) and a fur loincloth (SM +1, $22.50, 0.675 lbs.), giving the hill giant DR 3* on his torso and groin, and DR 2 (Tough Skin) everywhere else, and a maul (SM +1, $280, 27 lbs.). He can use his Parry Missile Weapons skill to catch rocks thrown at him on a successful Parry.


Perk:
Penetrating Voice
Doesn't fall when miss with a kick [1]

Technique
Punt (Brawling) [4]- 13


Punt (Average)

Defaults: Brawling-3 or Karate-3 or Kicking -1

Prerequisite: Brawling or Karate, cannot exceed prerequisite skill.

With this kick if the attacker causes knockback he makes his victim literally fly back!
The exact amount of horizontal space covered is equal to the the usual knockback, the vertical distance is the halved value. This way this attack can inflict falling damage.
As for any kicks, if you miss, roll vs Kicking or DX to avoid falling down.

Example:

If this giant connects with a Punt (attack roll 13) causes an average 20 crushing damage + 40 damage for double knockback. An average human (ST 10, HP 10) flies back for 5 yards and up for 2 yards (rounded down).

He has to make a DX/Acrobatics/Judo -4 roll to avoid falling otherwise he gets 2 (hard) x 10 (HP) x 7 (2 yards) / 100 = 1.4 ~ 1d crushing

This is so fun!

Last edited by giggioz; 03-09-2017 at 12:45 PM. Reason: sir pudding's note
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Old 03-09-2017, 12:35 PM   #6
sir_pudding
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Modeling a Giant: vertical knockback.

It should probably be Brawling-3, Karate -3 or Kicking -1; since it is kicking (-2) plus the special effect (-1).
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:45 AM   #7
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Modeling a Giant: vertical knockback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giggioz View Post
In the chat Slacker was very helpful and proposed this :

"I recall a Krommpost about alternative uses of knockback, the specific one in question being reversed knockback (towards you), being worth +20% as an option. Since this does damage, you could rule it as +30%, like Overhead, in addition to its increased mobility (you can shove someone over a 15' wall, or up a story, etc.)."

I like it.
.
I can certainly see how you could leverage extra benefit (although how useful reversed knock back is going to very much depend on how you are inflicting the damage in the first place!)

Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-09-2017 at 10:32 AM.
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