How to Price Traits you Give to a Possessed Host

Kallatari · 07-23-2021, 01:17 PM

There are sample powers of a human host that receives a bonus to his attributes (and other bonuses) when he is possessed by a powerful spirit. These are usually purchases with an "Only when Possessed, -10%" limitation... or possibly as an "Only in alternate form, -10%" or an actual build design using alternate forms.

But what if you're the possessing spirit? How do you price such traits? If whenever you posses someone you grant them +2 ST (because your ST is incredibly high, thus you give them a portion of it), your Combat Reflexes, and your Acute Vision 2? How do you price that as a trait for the spirit being?

First off, I think an Alternate Forms approach doesn't work. You can possess an effectively infinite variations of host, so the starting value of your package will vary; only your bonuses that you give them would be consistent. YOu'd have to start with some sort of "Morph"-built trait, but at that point you're really getting a convoluted system to do what you want when there are probably better ways. So I think we can rule out those approaches.

I then contemplated a "Only when possessing a host, -10%" limitation to the trait. Presumably, whatever your giving to your host is something you already have. So I don't think you should buy the trait twice, once with a limitation. A work-around to this would be a new "Also applies to Host body, +90%". Mechanically, this is the same as buying it twice, with a -10% on the second one. But is that a fair price? Seems a rather high cost for the ability to keep a trait you already have while in another form.

So what would be reasonable for such a feature? I'm leaning more or less around +20%. Not sure why; I guess it's sort of like the cost of an Alternative Ability since you can't have more than one at a time; i.e., your normal trait when you're a spirit, or the same trait yet again while possessing someone. I'm curious if others have any thoughts about this.

Related to this, should Possession itself also require some sort of additional enhancement as well? Sone sort of "transfers physical traits to host" enhancement? I'm leaning toward "No", but there is some sort of precedent is in place with Insubstantiality where if you want some powers that affect the normal world, in addition to having those powers buy Affect Substantial, you need to get the enhancement for Insubstantiality as well. Granted, not at all the same thing, but do we need something to distinguish between a possession that grants bonuses versus one that doesn't. Again, I don't particularly like that concept, but figured I'd raise it for this discussion anyway to see what others think.

Anthony · 07-23-2021, 01:37 PM

Granting a possessed host traits requires Affliction.

WingedKagouti · 07-23-2021, 01:41 PM

Try building the granted abilities/attribute buffs as Afflictions with some sort of Host Only limitation and Melee range.

Pursuivant · 07-23-2021, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

Try building the granted abilities/attribute buffs as Afflictions with some sort of Host Only limitation and Melee range.

But the GM should disallow any limitations which obviously overlap.

I wouldn't allow Accessibility (Host Only) and Melee Attack since "Host Only" implies Melee Attack (C).

Accessibility: Host Only, -40% seems fair, however: -30% for Melee Attack (C), plus -10% for only being able to affect host bodies (A Very Common class of target for the possessor).

ericthered · 07-23-2021, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Accessibility: Host Only, -40% seems fair, however: -30% for Melee Attack (C), plus -10% for only being able to affect host bodies (A Very Common class of target for the possessor).

Host bodies don't seem to be a common class of target to me: only one of them exists at any given time. Its always convenient, but the fact remains that only one target can receive the enhancement at a time.

awesomenessofme1 · 07-23-2021, 03:31 PM

Really minor correction, but just in case the specific example matters, Combat Reflexes is actually a mental trait, so there's nothing special you need to do to keep it with you when you possess someone.

Pursuivant · 07-23-2021, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthered

Host bodies don't seem to be a common class of target to me: only one of them exists at any given time. Its always convenient, but the fact remains that only one target can receive the enhancement at a time.

The cost of the Accessibility limitation ultimately depends on how effective your Possession powers are. If you can easily possess any object as a host any Afflictions you use to "buff" your host will be more effective than if your Possession takes considerable time or effort to work and/or you can only possess a limited selection of hosts.

If you can only possess one host at a time, then the limitation has to be a slightly more restrictive version of "self only."

Refplace · 07-23-2021, 05:32 PM

Trouble finding it but in a Pyramid issue there was a modifer to Possession that did this, I think it was the same % as Affliction.

Ok, found it with help from Discord! Possession's Under Control, Pyramid #3/81 see Transformative modifier, p. 30

Plane · 07-23-2021, 06:28 PM

Horror 72 and 73 use -40 for possessing humans (72 uses "possessed form")

Fantasy 53 uses -30% for possession victims.

transmetahuman · 07-24-2021, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refplace

Ok, found it with help from Discord! Possession's Under Control, Pyramid #3/81 see Transformative modifier, p. 30

Possessions Under Control is in Pyramid 3/83 (Alternate GURPS IV), not 3/81.

07-23-2021, 01:17 PM	#1
Kallatari Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada	How to Price Traits you Give to a Possessed Host There are sample powers of a human host that receives a bonus to his attributes (and other bonuses) when he is possessed by a powerful spirit. These are usually purchases with an "Only when Possessed, -10%" limitation... or possibly as an "Only in alternate form, -10%" or an actual build design using alternate forms. But what if you're the possessing spirit? How do you price such traits? If whenever you posses someone you grant them +2 ST (because your ST is incredibly high, thus you give them a portion of it), your Combat Reflexes, and your Acute Vision 2? How do you price that as a trait for the spirit being? First off, I think an Alternate Forms approach doesn't work. You can possess an effectively infinite variations of host, so the starting value of your package will vary; only your bonuses that you give them would be consistent. YOu'd have to start with some sort of "Morph"-built trait, but at that point you're really getting a convoluted system to do what you want when there are probably better ways. So I think we can rule out those approaches. I then contemplated a "Only when possessing a host, -10%" limitation to the trait. Presumably, whatever your giving to your host is something you already have. So I don't think you should buy the trait twice, once with a limitation. A work-around to this would be a new "Also applies to Host body, +90%". Mechanically, this is the same as buying it twice, with a -10% on the second one. But is that a fair price? Seems a rather high cost for the ability to keep a trait you already have while in another form. So what would be reasonable for such a feature? I'm leaning more or less around +20%. Not sure why; I guess it's sort of like the cost of an Alternative Ability since you can't have more than one at a time; i.e., your normal trait when you're a spirit, or the same trait yet again while possessing someone. I'm curious if others have any thoughts about this. Related to this, should Possession itself also require some sort of additional enhancement as well? Sone sort of "transfers physical traits to host" enhancement? I'm leaning toward "No", but there is some sort of precedent is in place with Insubstantiality where if you want some powers that affect the normal world, in addition to having those powers buy Affect Substantial, you need to get the enhancement for Insubstantiality as well. Granted, not at all the same thing, but do we need something to distinguish between a possession that grants bonuses versus one that doesn't. Again, I don't particularly like that concept, but figured I'd raise it for this discussion anyway to see what others think.

07-23-2021, 01:37 PM	#2
Anthony Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA	Re: How to Price Traits you Give to a Possessed Host Granting a possessed host traits requires Affliction. __________________ My GURPS site and Blog.

07-23-2021, 03:31 PM	#6
awesomenessofme1 Join Date: Mar 2016	Re: How to Price Traits you Give to a Possessed Host Really minor correction, but just in case the specific example matters, Combat Reflexes is actually a mental trait, so there's nothing special you need to do to keep it with you when you possess someone.

07-23-2021, 05:32 PM	#8
Refplace Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Yukon, OK	Re: How to Price Traits you Give to a Possessed Host Trouble finding it but in a Pyramid issue there was a modifer to Possession that did this, I think it was the same % as Affliction. Ok, found it with help from Discord! Possession's Under Control, Pyramid #3/81 see Transformative modifier, p. 30 __________________ My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries Last edited by Refplace; 07-23-2021 at 06:00 PM.

07-23-2021, 06:28 PM	#9
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	Re: How to Price Traits you Give to a Possessed Host Horror 72 and 73 use -40 for possessing humans (72 uses "possessed form") Fantasy 53 uses -30% for possession victims.

07-23-2021, 01:41 PM	#3
WingedKagouti Join Date: Oct 2007	Re: How to Price Traits you Give to a Possessed Host Try building the granted abilities/attribute buffs as Afflictions with some sort of Host Only limitation and Melee range.